JD's Proof

JDUtah

LawnSite Silver Member
Location
UT
Also, how does the digested waste smell? How likely is it to contain pathogenic microbes?

(Not thinking of it for farming right now)
 
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E

ecoguy

LawnSite Member
Location
Duncan
Damn you guys. I think me and JD deserve a Lawnsite prize for longest thread. BTW, JD, I haven't forgotten about you. I've been doing tons of reading lately on the effect synthetic fertilizers has on microbes and what I consistently find is #1 - Some synthetic fertilizers damage some microbes so it's not a black and white issue...and #2 Most synthetic fertilizers contribute to a "burning up" of organic matter depleting vital food for the microbes thus damaging them by extension.

For example..

Ammonium Sulfate

- It reacts with water in the soil forming sulfuric acid
- Sulfuric acid has an extremely low ph (less than 1) and damages micro-organisms
- Hydrogen ions released from the acid replace alkaline elements on the cation exchange sites depleting the soil of held nutrients
- The free oxygen created in this reaction oxidizes the organic matter of the soil causing a low level combustion burning of the organic matter

Source: Oxsphere: A Beginner's Guide to the Biogeochemical Cycling of Atmospheric Oxygen

Each synthetic has their own effect causing damage in different ways. The biggest impact though is the big picture. It disturbs nature's eco system. That being said, if the eco system is already disturbed then no harm no foul right, which is where the bridge program comes in. Still, I think its obvious that over time, the most sustainable and common sense approach is building then supporting then maintaining the soil's eco system. No synthetic can do that.
 

Smallaxe

LawnSite Fanatic
Damn you guys. I think me and JD deserve a Lawnsite prize for longest thread. BTW, JD, I haven't forgotten about you. I've been doing tons of reading lately on the effect synthetic fertilizers has on microbes and what I consistently find is #1 - Some synthetic fertilizers damage some microbes so it's not a black and white issue...and #2 Most synthetic fertilizers contribute to a "burning up" of organic matter depleting vital food for the microbes thus damaging them by extension.

For example..

Ammonium Sulfate

- It reacts with water in the soil forming sulfuric acid
- Sulfuric acid has an extremely low ph (less than 1) and damages micro-organisms
- Hydrogen ions released from the acid replace alkaline elements on the cation exchange sites depleting the soil of held nutrients
- The free oxygen created in this reaction oxidizes the organic matter of the soil causing a low level combustion burning of the organic matter

Source: Oxsphere: A Beginner's Guide to the Biogeochemical Cycling of Atmospheric Oxygen

Each synthetic has their own effect causing damage in different ways. The biggest impact though is the big picture. It disturbs nature's eco system. That being said, if the eco system is already disturbed then no harm no foul right, which is where the bridge program comes in. Still, I think its obvious that over time, the most sustainable and common sense approach is building then supporting then maintaining the soil's eco system. No synthetic can do that.

Microbrial populations are in constant flux, no matter what you are adding to a soil, denying a soil, or allowing the soil to change on its own. Irrigation waters are going to vary the populations depending on iron, calcium, sulfer, chlorine, etc. I have grown fine grass over gasoline spills, because the natural microbes, take care of the gasoline and others do their thing.

It is fine to learn the intricate details of what is happening with a germ and a salt. But the big picture tells us more...
Synthetic ferts, gobble up OM, and grows thatch in turf. The microbe populations that do well in that environment thrive, others do not. Most of population changes are indirect.

Let's think through one little thing... Too much water, too often, in a heavy soil, is going to cause - what environmental changes???

Microscope your populations before the drenching, then after a month of drenching.

I already know that microbe percentages of special populations will be much different. Correct? Are you with me so far?

Now for the conclusion... This is where all the "Peer Reviewed Research" goes to kr@pp. the Conclusion...

In my little 'drenching thought experiment' what will we conclude??? Obviously -- water KILLS certain microbes. :)
 

Tim Wilson

LawnSite Senior Member
Thanks Tim. I am a little ways off before I start playing with anything like those. But they sure are catching my interest! Do you or anyone know if anaerobic decomposition of vegetable matter will decompose 'cides more or less efficently than aerobic decomposition?

I believe anaerobic is superior (easier); completed by archaea
 

Smallaxe

LawnSite Fanatic
How do synthetic ferts burn/gobble up OM?

Do "synthetics" - need, a CE Site, to actually be used by the grass plant???

If the element is going to be used, does it need to 'adsorb' on a CE Site?

(OK,... I know Kiril, will come along and muddy the waters with..."Not always" or "There Are Too Many factors", blah , blah. blah.)
So you might have to reason this out for yourself, and decide what kind of search will answer, a specific question, to you satisfaction.

Basically - Root hairs, wrap around OM, and take advantage of every CE Site available... to get the food... that is how it works...

I would rather, that the people, that spend all their time, "Reading", would reveal that simple, "Botany 101", scenario, so we could move on from there.

If not, Get the old, John Jeavons, book... :)
It has more, "useful'" - and - "common sense", information, than most academics can understand... :)

I'm not trying to be synical, but we do know that OM, makes the difference, in plant availability. Eventually OM is lost. (as far as its usefulness for plants)...In the sandy soils of Florida - I actually find it hard to believe, that OM can exist for a single season.

I hope this gives an idea, of - "How Soils Work"... :)
 

Kiril

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
District 9 CA

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