Kawasaki Engine swaps - Kawasaki tech around?

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by WVZR-1, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. WVZR-1

    WVZR-1 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    I've a Scag Freedom Z 48" with an FR600V-AS15-R and it runs well @ 400 HRS

    I've acquired a Toro 74630 SS50000 TimeCutter with a blown FR651V-CS06-R with very few hours it seems. A shop told the owner it needed an engine. I can buy an engine for $1440 or so.

    My thoughts were to maybe use the FR600V from the Scag and buy maybe a FS651V to use on the Scag since it's a keeper. The FS651V would have a 3 YEAR Kawasaki warranty. The 50" TimeCutter should sell easily I'd think and I doubt under-powered.

    I'm not a small engine guy so I went to a couple shops to ask. I got shrugs and rolled eyes when asked about the possibilities. These shops I was told were "guys that knew".

    The only trouble that I could rationalize was potential muffler issues when mounting since both were 1" 3 5/32" (80mm) crank-shaft. I can't seem to find any engine specifications anywhere regarding mounting pattern etc. I never thought it would be as difficult to research as it's been.

    Can anyone see any issues that should "stand out" to tell me it can't be done? I understand there's maybe some RPM design specifications that change with the various builds of each but I can't document them.

    I thought I might like to use this FS651V for the Scag: KAW-FS651V-S07-S or there's many others that seem to match the crankshaft dimension. Is the crank-shaft dimension my only concern or is there a bolt pattern difference to the ZTR frame/chassis that might be different. I see no where that mentions anything other than 1/4" key-way when it's mentioned. Do they "all" have a key-way? Are some actually different?

    Anyone with any thoughts? Anyone know who I could contact? I've had some rather radical Cancer surgery that has made it very difficult for me to speak well and email communications with someone might be best.

    If I've overlooked something obvious "pile on" - I believe I can handle it. I've maybe a couple days to decide.
     
  2. Mow-Daddy.com

    Mow-Daddy.com LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,582

    If the blown kawi, has low hrs. Can you rebuild it? That would be my 1st option.
     
  3. WVZR-1

    WVZR-1 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    I had considered that but maybe do that and sell later. The FS651 w/warranty on the Scag I thought maybe a reasonable approach and I thought fast. I can't get the Toro out of the weather for maybe a few weeks.
     
  4. I MOW ALONE

    I MOW ALONE LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,961

    as long as crankshafts are same dimensions your good to go. bolt patterns are the same and mufflers will swap over
     
    TrainingWheels likes this.
  5. WVZR-1

    WVZR-1 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    Thanks for the comment regarding the mounting. I had assumed that but couldn't find dimensions anywhere. I had initially thought the muffler would swap but I couldn't find dimensions to confirm that and most reference manuals I found had the 541/600 grouped together and the 651/691/730 in a different group. I assumed that the crankcase being different then the exhaust ports after the cylinder heads installed might have a different center to center dimension. That I couldn't confirm anywhere. It was one of the questions I asked the shops. I find very different part numbers for mufflers and of course there's always the tear apart to check BUT it's "cold out".
     
  6. JLSLLC

    JLSLLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,306

    You should be able to find all you need here info wise. Post all specs of everything your consider to bolt together. There are a lot of techs,mechanics on here, with certs,as well as very handy guys that tackle things on their own. Keep reading and searching. This thread will grow fast. We like doing motor swaps around here. Good luck and happy wrenching.
     
    TrainingWheels likes this.
  7. TrainingWheels

    TrainingWheels LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,324

    WV,

    Welcome:

    Imowalone's got the money shot there. You are also right the block on the FR,FS and FX are the same....I'm going to assume that the bolt pattern is the same it may not be on the timecutter. The muffler should fit across all three iterations FR,FS,FX 541/600.

    Go here (below) you'll end up with more info than your dealer...All the bolt patterns dimensions etc

    Kawikaze EU

    I'd also give the FR a good look over you might find it might be a fairly simple fix (as long as there isn't a hole thru the side...but one too risky for the dealer to take on. I'd guess you'd be able to FR --> FX'it for about 5 benjis

    Let us know how it goes,

    BR,

    ~TW
     
    JLSLLC likes this.
  8. WVZR-1

    WVZR-1 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16


    TW - Thanks for the welcome. The .EU did me what I needed and suspected. The FR600 and less is 291mm cntr/cntr exhaust and the FR651+ is 295mm cntr/cntr, the flange seems identical but that explains maybe the muffler difference that I suspected. Since both are "below chassis" maybe I can just use the FR651 from the Toro on the FS if I decide to buy the FS651 for the Scag and use the FR600 for the Toro.

    I don't see any warranty issues because it's not a JD or any of the other "brand" restricted for warranty disclaimers.

    I'll compare the rest of the specifications pages and look further. You've renewed may interest. Ironically the FR600V-AS15 on the Scag isn't in the .EU documents but knowing that it exists maybe a USA dealer can supply it when asked or maybe Kawasaki direct.

    Does the use of the FR600V on the Toro and the repower of the Scag with the FR651V seem reasonable since the money is nearly the same?

    You might need to find a "new handle" - it seems I'm the guy that needs the "TRAINING WHEELS" - LOL
     
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  9. WVZR-1

    WVZR-1 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    Does the throttle/choke operation create any issues or just an adjustment done by clamp to cable conduit on the bracket. I tried to attach images. Don't know how this will work. I don't see a "preview" option. FR600V top, FS651V lower.

    FR600V Throttle control.jpg
    FS651V Throttle control.jpg
     
  10. BigFish

    BigFish LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,114

    TrainingWheels likes this.

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