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Kohler Command EFI Flex Fuel

Discussion in 'Alternative Fuel Forum' started by DA Quality Lawn & YS, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. DA Quality Lawn & YS

    DA Quality Lawn & YS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,280

    Did anyone check this engine option out at the GIE? What equipment might this be available on in the near future? Anyone with more info?

    This is rather exciting to me. Eth here is 20% discount to reg gas. Even at a 10% reduction in fuel economy, I would still come out ahead. I would gladly stop at the E85 pump down the street. Thanks Kohler for actually getting innovative and trying to keep up with the times.
  2. djagusch

    djagusch LawnSite Platinum Member
    from MN
    Messages: 4,350

    E85 gets about 30% less fuel economy in a car than regular gas. 76,100 to 81,800 btu's in e85 (depending on source) compared to 114,000 btu's in gas or 111,000 btu's in E10 (the standard at the mn pump).

    E85 does have a higher octane which could let the engine running a higher compression ratio but since it is a flex fuel it needs to still work with gas so the octane advantage is not taken advantage of.

    The corngrowers associations have lobbied ethanol so much and that is why it is being used more than the merits of the fuel itself.

    To have E85 the mower mfg needs to increase their fuel tanks about 30% to have people actually use them in high production options.

    Also if it wasn't for the gov subsidies that discount the E85 it would be much more expensive. Just remember it looks cheaper but you are still paying taxes to pay for it.

    Propane without subsidies still makes sense. The fuel savings offsets the conversion costs pretty quickly and the infrastucture is already in place (tank exchange programs, tank filling at certain locations, etc.)

    Kohler basically upgraded the ECU, added a sensor to know what fuel is in it, changed fuel injectors to flow more. It's more hype than actually moving with the times.
  3. DA Quality Lawn & YS

    DA Quality Lawn & YS LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,280

    I ran tests in my old Pont Grand Am, E85 vs reg 87 octane gas. I have the data, but not immediately available. It was not 30% reduction in economy. Was closer to 10%.
    You are buying into the ethanol basher's bogus info my friend.
    And yes I do choose to support a fuel that is grown in the state where I live. I would expect that it will be further refined in the future to be an even better option. I also like propane, ok option for mowers (not sure I really want to lug tanks around). Am excitied to see what other options become available in coming years, lets hope sooner rather than later.
  4. djagusch

    djagusch LawnSite Platinum Member
    from MN
    Messages: 4,350

    Your test of the Grand Am. I didn't know of a E85 version of a Grand Am. Did you just drive it on E85 or did you adjust the fuel map, injector size, compression ratio, timing, etc?

    If you just put E85 in your Grand Am if you ran it for a period of time like that you would of ruined your engine. The engine map was on the richest setting it could be as the o2 sensors were reading lean. The ECU couldn't correct the fuel ratio as it was never programed to run that rich (meaning using more fuel). Also the fuel injection system most likely couldn't handle that volume.
    The extreme lean condition would of wreck the engine long term.

    Besides that the o rings, fittings, and fuel lines would of rotted out after long term use as it was not made from this.

    How would I know this? From 1996 to 2000 I went to college in Mankato for automotive engineering technology. We (meaning the students) changed a 98 Malibu over to E85 before the chev ever did. We also did a 99 chev 1500 in a clean air challange. So I lived this stuff over the years. If it was not for the mn corngrowers money we wouldn't of done any of it. They pushed it hard.

    We got 30% less mpg with engines compression up and fuel injectors matched with a program ecu's. Ran on engine dyno'sand on emmision dyno's.

    Would it be nice to have locally grown fuel, sure. But it costs too much to make, it takes too much water to make (there aren't ethonal plants in drying area's of the US because of this), it increases food costs, and takes away land from making other foods we need. It sounds good but it isn't. It's lobbing buying at it's finest.

    Quit drinking the corn flavored Koolaid. :drinkup:

    Any more info on the grand am test? I would love to here about it.
  5. Johnagain

    Johnagain LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 410

    E85 is a bigger scam than global warming. I see our local gov agencies buying these new e85 cars and the nearest gas station is over 1.5 hours away. That makes sense to me.
  6. djagusch

    djagusch LawnSite Platinum Member
    from MN
    Messages: 4,350

    Still looking for more info on the grand am test!
    Posted via Mobile Device
  7. dutchacres

    dutchacres LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 516

    I was pumped when I bought my Nissan Titan because it was flex fuel and growing up my grandpa farmed and I figured I would help the farmer out some running E85. Well the first day I got it I was going on a trip and stopped on the way and filled up on E85 and was shocked. I only averaged 9.7 mpg on the interstate running 75 with the cruise set. This being the first time I had tested it I was hoping I didn't get this bad on regular fuel. I have tried running it three or four other times since then with the same results. On regular 87 I average about 15.5 mpg. So my fuel drops more than 30%. I did the math and to make it equal it would need to be like $0.70 a gallon cheaper to break even. Around here it only runs may $0.30 a gallon so it is not even close to being worth it to me.
    Posted via Mobile Device

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