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....Traditionally, most LCO's put down 1 - 1 1/2 pounds of N for the "winterizer" app. This gives early green-up and helps turf to become thicker in early spring (giving it a head start before weeds can invade).

Been checking "natural-organic" blends that offer up to only 16% N :confused:. Does this mean we have to apply 7 to 9 pounds per 1000 sq ft? :confused: If that's the case, my guys are gunna be really tired at the end of each day.....pushing spreaders with all that weight up & down hills, etc. :hammerhead:

What are your thoughts?

rscvp, thanks
 

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wow shocking, standard mind set for a chem guy both of you, I was under the impression that we had built the soil and added OM and humates and all that good stuff to the soil in advance!!! that way it did not need a little N fix so that it can wake up??? most organic lawn guys I have talked to add some HERD food and some fulvic and humic acid to tie up there excess N and keep the snow mold down! really the whole point of organic land care and sustainable was lost with you fellows. all you did was use the synthetic ferts to grow corn and soy to add to the lawns, then instead of adding fert you can market and add some NATURAL fert just to make the customer feel good and line your pockets. and a natural-organic blend whats that any ways, standard fert with some more happy label and feel good BS message about how we try to save the earth with out the use or less use of chems and fert, thats so lame, after you start to add the transport and fuel and handling and CORN, you did more damage than good and should just use the same old fert that evey other LCO does.


this I got to hear from the fert guys ??? WHY DOES IT HURT THE EARTH TO USE ORGANIC BASED FERT BASED ON THE CALORIE INPUT TO YIELD RATIO????
 

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....Traditionally, most LCO's put down 1 - 1 1/2 pounds of N for the "winterizer" app. This gives early green-up and helps turf to become thicker in early spring (giving it a head start before weeds can invade).

Been checking "natural-organic" blends that offer up to only 16% N :confused:. Does this mean we have to apply 7 to 9 pounds per 1000 sq ft? :confused: If that's the case, my guys are gunna be really tired at the end of each day.....pushing spreaders with all that weight up & down hills, etc. :hammerhead:

What are your thoughts?

rscvp, thanks
Re work your math there sport, maybe take a applicators refresh course???
 

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The mindset is different. The fall is when the grass is preparing for winter by storing as many carbohydrates in its system as possible. These carbs are now ready to be used as spring advances, and greens up as nice looking as it probably will for the rest of the season.

Up here as the ground thaws and warms - the micro-herd begins its activity and starts to feed the plant as the plant feeds the herd.

This is basically the natural cycle of turf. NPK in the early spring tends to bypass the normal wake up and provokes an unnatural push of leaf growth.

I will personally be spreading a little bit of Milorganite on my lawns this fall, just incase we lost some nutrient value during the summer.
 

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wow shocking, standard mind set for a chem guy both of you, I was under the impression that we had built the soil and added OM and humates and all that good stuff to the soil in advance!!! that way it did not need a little N fix so that it can wake up??? most organic lawn guys I have talked to add some HERD food and some fulvic and humic acid to tie up there excess N and keep the snow mold down! really the whole point of organic land care and sustainable was lost with you fellows. all you did was use the synthetic ferts to grow corn and soy to add to the lawns, then instead of adding fert you can market and add some NATURAL fert just to make the customer feel good and line your pockets. and a natural-organic blend whats that any ways, standard fert with some more happy label and feel good BS message about how we try to save the earth with out the use or less use of chems and fert, thats so lame, after you start to add the transport and fuel and handling and CORN, you did more damage than good and should just use the same old fert that evey other LCO does.

this I got to hear from the fert guys ??? WHY DOES IT HURT THE EARTH TO USE ORGANIC BASED FERT BASED ON THE CALORIE INPUT TO YIELD RATIO????
Slow down there TURBO! You make some pretty big assumptions . Where in my post did I mention my source of N
or describe my program. My program builds the soil without syn fertilizers.I agreed that fall is the time to throw N. Do you jump on the guys case who bomb the yards with CCM in the spring? Before you post your self righteous crap lets go over your operation. Are your diesel engines 2008 or newer? If not do you realize how much you are polluting the air.......
BTW I am not throwing the N to "wake up" the turf.
 

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The mindset is different. NPK in the early spring tends to bypass the normal wake up and provokes an unnatural push of leaf growth.

I will personally be spreading a little bit of Milorganite on my lawns this fall, just incase we lost some nutrient value during the summer.
not 7-9 lbs per k of 19% N???
 

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Slow down there TURBO! You make some pretty big assumptions . Where in my post did I mention my source of N
or describe my program. My program builds the soil without syn fertilizers.I agreed that fall is the time to throw N. Do you jump on the guys case who bomb the yards with CCM in the spring? Before you post your self righteous crap lets go over your operation. Are your diesel engines 2008 or newer? If not do you realize how much you are polluting the air.......
BTW I am not throwing the N to "wake up" the turf.
we dont need new motors we run svo and biofuels that we are growing algae to produce, and yes we think corn is real loser, and as far as i am concerned, pay to play is for,,,, lets just say I like to get paid for getting in the game!!!!!
 

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oh also DISHBOY, and I just love that, we have been making char out of waste and putting almost 60 tons of carbon back into our lawns every quarter, thats about 240 for the year, maybe you should get in your 2008 and get to see a real 0 input operation before you get started !!!!
 

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....Traditionally, most LCO's put down 1 - 1 1/2 pounds of N for the "winterizer" app. This gives early green-up and helps turf to become thicker in early spring (giving it a head start before weeds can invade).

Been checking "natural-organic" blends that offer up to only 16% N :confused:. Does this mean we have to apply 7 to 9 pounds per 1000 sq ft? :confused: If that's the case, my guys are gunna be really tired at the end of each day.....pushing spreaders with all that weight up & down hills, etc. :hammerhead:

What are your thoughts?

rscvp, thanks
Hi Larry,

The application rate for Nutrients PLUS 16-2-3 is 3-6lbs/1000. Recommended rate of 4.3lb/1000 will cover 11,400 sq ft. This will provide 0.7 lb N/1000 sq ft. We recommend that in the second year the rate drops to 3.1lb/1000 sq ft. giving you 16,000 ft of coverage at 0.5 lb N/1000 sq ft.

Nutrients PLUS Screamin' Green 16-2-3 is by far our best seller because it works. :waving:
 

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:laugh: Not even if requestted....
well maybe if they ask, I could just take a couple laps around my 2008 and kiss my money and be off the hook scott free......WTF are some of these guys...... never mind, I still have to sleep at night, knowing that there is 7-9 lbs of ??? floating in my river and that's not me, 3lbs per year, that's not me, add if it starts to fall, after a little test...........fall, after 6 top dresses a year, lololol,ROFL \, this thread digressed into a comedy
 

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It is time for a new dump truck, perhaps I could do 3lbs/K -twice- this fall.
How many tons of corn for a 9k lawn??? :)

The lawns I am most concerned about this year are the Chemlawn controlled.
 

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I think what Larry was referring to was the "bridge" product phasthound referred to(16-2-3.) Being in more Northern climates, certainly not Florida and not here in Arkansas, he is dealing with Cool season turfgrass and that is a whole different ball game! Here, we apply very little if any N to turfgrass as part of our "winterizer". However, our growing season is longer and during the growing season, the amount of N applied is a real concern for sustained appearance. Let's face the facts.The customer pays for a nice looking lawn. It has to look nice and remain looking nice for a reasonable amount of time for our customer to remain "our" customer,otherwise they'll find someone else. I don't have a huge compost heap or a steady supply of sewage sludge at hand. And even if I did, at this point, I'm not convinced that either would keep my business afloat. What I do know is that I am willing to, and can change the way I operate in order for my business to survive and if it helps keep things "green", it's that much better.
 

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hey AXE, ted here sounds like one of those chem guys, maybe even a trugreen guy, don't try and convince him this works.LOLOL:laugh:wait let me take one more guess, he has been a chem guy since the 1980'S.:waving::laugh::laugh:
 

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I think what Larry was referring to was the "bridge" product phasthound referred to(16-2-3.) Being in more Northern climates, certainly not Florida and not here in Arkansas, he is dealing with Cool season turfgrass and that is a whole different ball game! Here, we apply very little if any N to turfgrass as part of our "winterizer". However, our growing season is longer and during the growing season, the amount of N applied is a real concern for sustained appearance. Let's face the facts.The customer pays for a nice looking lawn. It has to look nice and remain looking nice for a reasonable amount of time for our customer to remain "our" customer,otherwise they'll find someone else. I don't have a huge compost heap or a steady supply of sewage sludge at hand. And even if I did, at this point, I'm not convinced that either would keep my business afloat. What I do know is that I am willing to, and can change the way I operate in order for my business to survive and if it helps keep things "green", it's that much better.
We do have a short growing season and the study of what turf needs for winters has been an ongoing one.
My customers pay for great looking lawns as well. N is not an issue - if the soil is rich and healthy.

It doesn't take a huge compost pile to make it that way. Leave the clippings on the lawn and manage water properly and the soil will do better without NPK particularily during summer heat.

Right now my unirrigated lawns are looking rough and it is because of the heat/drought conditions and has nothing to do with NPK needs. When cool season grasses recieve cool weather and moisture - they will once again start taking in food and look as green and lush as their genetic material allows. W/out any apps from me. All I can do right now for those lawns is NOT mow, and run hoses.
 

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hey AXE, ted here sounds like one of those chem guys, maybe even a trugreen guy, don't try and convince him this works.LOLOL:laugh:wait let me take one more guess, he has been a chem guy since the 1980'S.:waving::laugh::laugh:
What made you think - 'since the 1980s'? :)
 
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