Lightweight 28"-32" mower with balls?

roody2333

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
nj
I've been meaning to ask you all this, and it's just in time that this thread came about
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=447396

I own a timemaster, I dislike it.

First I will note some problems about the timemaster and then ask my question about a machine(s) I'm hoping exists.

Timemaster doesn't stuff the bag well when bagging like the 22" PPace or any other 20-22" mower I've used (except maybe hi vac push mowers which are know to not all bag well). If you dump into standard paper lawn and leaf bags sometimes, the timemaster bag doesn't fit inside it, it's a PITA to fill paper bags as is my 36" bob cat metal cage/bagger. You could try one of those bag chute inserts that enlarge the opening but it would probably be easier to just grab handfuls of clipping out with the mower bag above the paper bag instead of trying to dump it all out in one shake. With the chute insert, you can't stick your leg into the bag and compress the clippings down to get 5X the amount of clippings in the bag vs uncompressed unless you're like 6'5" or taller maybe.




Timemaster is only 190 cc (and for some reason the "commercial grade" turfmaster is only 179 cc and same with the Xmark 30"). 190cc, I don't think it matters how many HP they claim it to be (which is 8.75 for the timemaster), it's just 190cc like most 22" mowers. All Toro did was basically give you the same engine and configuration as a 22" personal pace plus the ability to engage/disengage the belt while still keeping the engine running and instead of charging ~$450 for a new machine like a 22", they charge MSRP: 1,149.99 USD for the timemaster and the Turfmaster and xmark are I think $1,800.

190cc isn't enough power to run two blades, if you are just cutting your own lawn and you don't miss a week and thus you're not cutting more than a few inches off at time, and especially if it's not wet at all, then the timemaster is sort of ok and you get done faster. I guess I got lucky at first and lawns weren't really growing or something because the timemaster wasn't really being overpowered by the grass, I was happy at first. My RPMs are all on par and the timemaster is running full power, I sharpen blades every other day about, but it doesn't nearly have the power to cut lawns that are fertilized or cut every two weeks. I mulch almost always unless it's like 2' tall and hasn't been cut in ages, I know mulching is a huge factor vs discharging in terms of bogging/slowing down but I like to stick to mulching, it's cleaner, it decomposes into fertilizer faster and most likely less likely to turn into excess thatch which isn't a problem when mulching, I don't have to worry about wind or shooting into beds or on wet pavement etc, and I mulch leaves and you can't discharge leaves. Some days I switch over to the 22" and notice right away how much faster I can get done on most lawns but I don't want to use a 22" only.


Timemaster deck cakes up horribly even if you are only cutting a few inches off. I have never ever had a 20-22" deck cake up like this, it drastically reduces performance and thus you have to walk so slowly as you mow. I have to scrape the deck all the time.


I'm sure I will think of other problems with the timemaster, but the main one is simply that 190cc to run two 15" blades is not nearly enough power for most situations. If it's wet, forget about it, the timemaster will bog down where a 22" 190cc mower would move much faster and you'll probably get done faster and less stressful with just a 22".



So, anyway, I was hoping to get suggestions for a small mower with some balls but according to the thread I linked, I don't think they exist. I have a 36" bobcat with 15HP mower but I don't have a trailer, and I don't really plan on getting one, I like to travel light using just a truck bed, and I have a bed cap and I don't have to worry about thieves/vandals at a parking lot or something or rain. I got the 36" in Spring before discovering the timemaster. My plan was to do houses with small gates one day with the 22" and then the 36" for larger lawns, but keeping a schedule like that would never happen. I discovered the 30" after buying the 36" and was so happy thinking I could just use that for everything. I calculated that if a yard is something like 50 feet by 50 feet, then the 36" vs 30" would only save me about two or three passes/stripes, so I was happy thinking that I was only losing like 3 minutes if I used the 30" vs a 36"", although the 36" belt drive is zero turn and much better on 180 degree turns, overall, I like the handling better of the lighter timemaster.

I might just have to get a 32" with ~14HP engine. I think that would fit though most gates, I think I remember having about 2" wiggle room with the 30" going through most gates. I might get one of those hinged mulching plates beacuse as I am finishing writing this, I realize the main problem I'm having with the timemaster is that I'm mulching instead of discharging but as I mentioned, I'd like to stick to just mulching for the most part. The thing about a 32" is that they are heavy, heavy is good for strength and everything but as I was saying I don't use a trailer. I started with 6 foot harbor freight ramps. I have driven large rear tine tillers up them and a bunch of other machines no problem but with the 36" it was real sketchy so I ordered these 10' ramps which are much less steep than 6' ramps but it's still sketchy loading and unloading when driving the mower up the ramps.
http://www.titanramps.com/tr/lawn-mower-ramps/pair-of-10-long-folding-arch-ramps.html#.VisN1cddFwE

With the timemaster, it's light enough that I just fold the handle down so it goes under the cap and just push the mower up the ramps. I am worried if I get a 32" bobcat or something that it will be to heavy to push up the ramps and the only way to get it up the ramps would be driving it. If I get a flat tire on a 32" I might be screwed, might have to leave it where I'm mowing and wait for part(s) and then repair it there. I will carry spare belts in case one of those break and I keep tire plug kits but the transmission or something could crap out and I won't be able to drive it up the ramps. I would like to stick to belt drive for suggestions because I'm somewhat familiar with them but know nothing about hydro other than repairs are pricey but that you can go in reverse and drive on hills safer but I don't really do hills. I don't think it's possible to push the 36" bobcat I have up the ramps without driving it even though 10' ramps are not steep at all because in order to get it in neutral to roll, you have to squeeze the handles a bit and just the placement of the weight and how the handles are even if tipping the mower back on the back wheels (which is a restricted tilt die to the bed cap), I don't think it's possible even for like a big steroid guy to push it up the ramp but I'm hoping maybe a 32" somehow only 4" smaller would maybe be pushable, if it helps, my 36" is a heavy tank from like 1985 so maybe they make them lighter now?

Easy height adjustment is another thing I am looking for, my 36", you have to tilt it and remove the blades and add washers.


Sorry long and sort of ramble but anyone got mower suggestions?

this Worldlawn 28" is not very powerful, right? 10.5 HP it probably just has a 179-190cc engine? looks like a regular push engine
http://www.worldlawn.com/walk-behinds/wy28t11bs/

Closest worldlawn dealer to me is like a 4 hour drive. I'm hoping to get something used anyway.
 
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OakNut

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Turf Tracer drools over posts like this and will be along shortly to solve ALL of your problems.

:D ;)


I have nothing much to offer. I like my TimeMaster a lot - warts and all, but if it doesn't work for YOU then it certainly is time to look for what does work.

Probably the only part of your assessment I disagree with is the fact that the bag doesn't fill. Mine packs FULL. It's too freakin' heavy to screw with when it's full in my opinion, so I empty it sooner when I can.

Not sure why you'd want to dump in paper bags unless that's the only way you are allowed to dispose of clippings. That would be maddening.
The opening IS big so I can see the problem you are having - I have a similar problem when using a smaller trash can, but I have a larger can that is teh same width and it works fine. I place a 39 gal trash bag in and use that if I need to.
 

Exact Rototilling

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Zone: 5B
Get some burlap 6x6 or 7x7 tarps for clipping. I see contractors filling plastic bags and I'm thinking....seriously...major pita.

Kinda of a bummer Dixie Chopper doesn't make the Dually 32. Kind of a different beast.

Been using my BOP Dually 36 more this year on certain lawns. Clients love how it cuts however I am inclined to double cut.

Don't hold your breath on a powerhouse 28-30" mower with a rear bag.
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roody2333

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
nj
I didn't bag that much with the timemaster but I remember it not packing, could have been wet though. The rest of my problems with it could most likely be solved if I just side discharge. Can't do that with leaves but leaf mulching (and thus bogging) costs more anyway. Might have to learn the art of discharging, there's a science to it apparently it can only be done portions of the year. I tried mowing high and then lowering the toro30 deck and doing a second pass but that still takes too long.

The worldlawn 28" is apparently not a small engine though, I'm looking into these. They have 32s also. Just wondering if the weight is much lighter than a regular ole used 32" bobcat/scag or something I can get for a third of the price if I'm lucky. Worldlawn 28" is about 340lbs, up a 10 foot ramp (not steep), that should be doable if I can put it in neutral (usually have to semi squeeze the handles on most belt drives if I'm not mistaken) but if I can somehow lower the handles real low real quickly/easily, and then squeeze them while still pushing it up the ramps as if I were pushing on the back of the deck [which is easier vs pushing from the handles on top when all the weight's on the bottom anyway) or if I can just bypass having to squeeze the handles to put it in neutral and just push it up the ramps by pushing on the back of the deck if the thing happens to get a flat or the trans break or something like that. Push a flat tire mower, probably not, I would have to hope I can get at least some air in the tire for loading, maybe they're flat free or aftermarket replacements, I basically have winter to figure this out though. If I didn't have the cap, I could just install a wench and crank it up the ramps if it's got a flat tire or something, but still might be able to do that with a cap. I think I am just scarred to drive the mower up because I learned this on my 36" bobcat when the speed variation belt was wrong and it was max speed and I had to rely on the grips/brakes to slow it down so any minor adjustment at full speed created a jerk I was scarred I would dump it, it' snot going to fall on me but I don't want to dump a mower a couple feet up. Maybe with the drive speed correctly working it's easier, with the rear tine tiller it goes up nice and slow and heavy no problems.

http://www.worldlawn.com/products/walk-behinds/28-inch/

each model ^ has the engine type, I googled them and found the two hydros have a GXV340 Honda 11HP 337 cc should be plenty of power, the non-electric belt drive has a Briggs Intek 10.5 is most likely 344cc, the electric start belt drive Intek 11.5 is 344cc also.


Home Depot has them starting at ~$1550 (~$1550 for the pull start belt model, then the electric start belt, the pull hydro, the electric start hydro) with 2 year commercial warranty parts and labor and 10 year on the deck. Ship to home free. Can probably get %10 off if I try hard enough.
http://www.homedepot.com/s/worldlawn?NCNI-5

Nice modern machines, somewhat quick height adjustment with 4 pins. I probably will have to bolt a mulch plate on or get the hinged one you can open/close with a lever and hope the baffles, if even present, are not a disaster with blowout or clumping when mulching especially with gator blades but I might install a custom skirt/rubber flaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npeaUxAPi8o

As I mentioned though, I'm not having too many problems mulching with just a190cc 22", for the extra 6" width, do I really want a 28"? If the 32" worldlawn is light enough, that would better of course. Another thing I don't really like about caster wheels is they might flatten the grass before it's cut, but on a regular 22" mower, the wheels are on the outside and you get the full 22" cut, sometimes I only make my edge where the castor wheel is to not flatten the grass before it's cut and thus I loose a few inches of width, might be unnecessary but probably not if it's long enough.
For a 50 foot wide mowing area, it's 27.27 passes/stripes with a 22" mower, with a 28" mower, it's 21.4 passes, so basically 6 stripes/passes are eliminated, I guess that's as good as I can get. I think you either have a trailer and a 52"/48" plus a small push/32" for gates, or have to do with only saving about 6 passes per 50 feet.

Prices seem good for the worldlawns and the warranty also unless I have to bring it to a warranty place, sometimes they trick you on that and it doesn't even pay for them to fix it, you're better off doing it yourself and buying the parts vs travel and waiting. I would take good care of it but sometimes things break.
 
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roody2333

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
nj
I highly recommend those 10' ramps if anyone is looking to ramp a WBH into a bed. very unsteep, and they fold, 600lbs capacity each, includes the straps so the ramps don't kick out, easy to hook the straps to the truck underframe. Sit on a mower and drive it up, that's up to you, I would never.
 

Exact Rototilling

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Zone: 5B
Roody2223,

The yBravo 25 packs clippings very tightly. I would not want to be without this mower. I have not used a 21" for 4+ years.

To me it sounds like you need to track down a used BOP Dually Q32. Worldlawn and those other flimsy mowers... Save your $.
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roody2333

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
nj
eh, the worldlawn parts aren't exactly cheap or easy to find, can't even find some of them when googling the part codes from worldlawn, I'd have to go through worldlawn = monopoly plus a PITA I bet.
A spindle is $100 but I can get a new 'bobcat spindle' on ebay for like $34. A brake band is $34 but I can get a 'bobcat' one on ebay for $16 = about half the price for other things too I bet, and if the trans or something expensive breaks I won't find a used one like a bobcat. I know theses cheap 'bobcat' parts are aftermarket but as you said, I also doubt the Worldlawn parts are high quality. 10 year warranty on the 'deck' I guess just means the deck housing rotting/rusting out and not all the other parts besides the engine. I might look into how hard/easy it is to get warranty on the parts but in 2 years warranty it says, I don't think I'll break anything. I hope 2 years is just for the engine and 10 year is for the whole machine, rims, handles, spindles, transmission etc and that they'll just mail me it if I send proving pictures.



There are some 33"ers from cub cadet. 420cc only 240lbs, some models are 344cc. Troy bilt (420cc 323lbs). Both have bag (rear on the troybilt and hi vac side/rear for the cadet) and also mulching/discharging so I don't have to install a mulch plate on a worldlawn and hope it works baffle/blowout-wise).
It's only a fabric hi vac bag for the cub cadet but I can store that a lot easier than a steel cage/rear bag. I don't really bag.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cub-Cade...-Area-Walk-Behind-Mower-19A20001100/202035122


These troybilts and cub cadets are somewhat dinky mowers too but. I will check out your suggestion BOP Dually Q32 as well. I can't find much about that machine, the pdf manualis not available it says and it says betteroutdoorproducts.com 'this site might be hacked' in Internet Explorer before clicking it. There's a bunch of 32"s like the snapper and toro but I don't think there is anything 30" besides the time/turfmaster and xmark30. A 32" Toro is about 402lbs.

I just hope I can fit 33" through most gates, I'm going to measure a bunch. The wench idea I might install for backup, they are pretty cheap, or I'll have to get someone to help me push it up the ramp if the rim or transmission or something breaks. And I just drive the machine up the ramps for now on if need be. It's a bit sketchier with the added cap but I'll be fine.


If toro would just thicken up the 30" deck a bit and replace the plastic handles etc to accommodate a stronger engine while still keeping it light, fix the deck caking up issue (I think it might not be deep/tall enough) a few other things, then a lot of people would be very happy. But apparently they showed nothing new at this expo. I read the toro30 was by far the most sold unit from them this past year(s) so hopefully someone comes out with a lightweight 30" with balls soon.

I'm leaning towards a cubcadet 33" at 240lbs I should be be able to push it up my ramps without driving it. The timemaster is 132 lbs and it goes up effortlessly. My ramps are sort of ladder rungs so I can pause if needed and it won't slide back down.


can usually find these cub cadets used, has reverse also, dunno how they did that on a belt drive.
dude gives it a good review, says the 'hi vac bag plugs with wet clippings but so does a walker'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Be9QMq1cQ


anyway, thanks again and hopefully some from the 30" thread find some use out of this.

edit: just found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq7IzygIjrs
he compares a timemaster to cub cadet 33" in foot-tall grass and the cub isn't as good as I thought, and he said that's about as high as the cub cadet deck could go, so if you wanted to double cut it mowing high first, it would still be that bad but that the timemaster could have gone a lot higher on the setting but he purposely made the heights even to test. If it were slightly wet though, mulching like he did, the timemaster would have caked up a complete circle around each blade in half of the first pass.
 
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lawnboy dan

LawnSite Platinum Member
Location
north florida
i recommend the toro proline 32. floating deck easy adjust and plenty of power from the kohler 13 hp engine. tbar steering. great unit. loads easy into pickup bed with proper ramp
 
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roody2333

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
nj
Hopefully the singe 32" blade on some of those toro 32 prolines gives less caking up and blowout than a pair of 16" blades. They make a gator 32" also. Discontinued here but I can probably find one
http://www.mowersdirect.com/Oregon-96-604/p12794.html


http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/grd/5282800430.html
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/5207341060.html

I don't think it's possible even for like a big steroid guy to push that up ramps all day though, even 10 foot (unsteep) ones. I think I'll just have to deal with driving it up the ramps. If the trans breaks or something, I'll have to bring parts to it to repair, or just find someone to help me push it up the ramps. thanks for your suggestion.
 

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