lime and nitrogen

MV Property Care

LawnSite Member
Location
Western PA
I have read that if you add lime you want to make sure it's at least 4weeks after you have had your last fertilized because lime and nitrogen counteract each other and it would be a waste of money. I have also read using starter fertilizer for a new lawn with lime. This confused me. Can anybody clarify if they use Lime and fertilizer together.
 

DuallyVette

LawnSite Gold Member
Location
Charlotte NC
They don't negate the properties of each other. You can put them out at the same time. I usually apply dolometic lime before I aerate in the Fall, so some can move into the soil.
 

Kiril

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
District 9 CA
I have read that nitrogen and lime can turn into amonia? Has anybody heard this?
It can lead to increased volatilization losses as a result of high(er) pH in surface soils, some fertilizers impacted more than others. Urea based fertilizers typically have the highest risk of volatilization losses over other types of N ferts, especially when broadcast/surface applied. That said, there are other factors that can also lead to increased volatilization losses (for all N types, but in particular Urea N), does anyone here consider these factors as well?
 

davidris

LawnSite Member
Location
Michigan
Urea is converted into ammonia and ammonium regardless of the Lime reaction

The Calcium will kick off 2 Hydrogen from the exchange sites on the soil colloids. The 2 Hydrogen that have been displaced will lower the surface soil PHw for a few but quickly attach to the carbonate created in the lime reaction and bubble off as CO2. The PH will increase from the loss of Hydrogen.

As long as the PH is not above 7.5 volatilization of Urea is not an issue. If you have a low PH and are liming then the PH is below 7.5 . Hydrogen in the soil attaches to the ammonia(NH3) to make Ammonium(NH4) readily. If your liming then the increase in PH should make the N more available. Cant think of anything else other than keep Oxygen high.
 

Smallaxe

LawnSite Fanatic
... That said, there are other factors that can also lead to increased volatilization losses (for all N types, but in particular Urea N), does anyone here consider these factors as well?
That would be an interestting topic, in that I believe we put down too much N, just to watch it disappear into the water table or into the air...
 

Kiril

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
District 9 CA
Urea is converted into ammonia and ammonium regardless of the Lime reaction

The Calcium will kick off 2 Hydrogen from the exchange sites on the soil colloids. The 2 Hydrogen that have been displaced will lower the surface soil PHw for a few but quickly attach to the carbonate created in the lime reaction and bubble off as CO2. The PH will increase from the loss of Hydrogen.
Neither hydrogen or CO2 is necessarily lost from the system, and hydrogen is most certainly not lost as a result of CO2 gassing off.

As long as the PH is not above 7.5 volatilization of Urea is not an issue.
That would depend on what you define as an issue. It is true that you will see higher volatilization losses at higher pH, however you can see significant volatilization losses at pH values lower than 7.5, particularly as a function of time with surface applied urea.

If you have a low PH and are liming then the PH is below 7.5 . Hydrogen in the soil attaches to the ammonia(NH3) to make Ammonium(NH4) readily. If your liming then the increase in PH should make the N more available. Cant think of anything else other than keep Oxygen high.
The ammonia reacts with water, not free hydrogen, and this is a reversible reaction.

NH4 + OH <-> NH3 + H2O
 

ArTurf

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Ark
In general situations where there is low PH would it be best to space the applications of lime or calcium type products and then the app of regular fert?

For instance apply lime product and then say 2 weeks later apply reg fert.
 

davidris

LawnSite Member
Location
Michigan
Neither hydrogen or CO2 is necessarily lost from the system, and hydrogen is most certainly not lost as a result of CO2 gassing off.
LIME REACTION
CaCO3 + H2O &#8594; Ca+2 + CO3-2 + H2O
[ Soil ] H Ca+2&#8594; [ Soil ]Ca + 2H+H CO3-2 + H+ &#8594; HCO3-1
HCO3-1 + H+ &#8594;H2O + CO2 (gas) &#8593;
(Loss of a free Hydrogen from Hydrogen bonding to form a water molecule and Co2 gassing off as a result) That is the whole point of liming. Reduce the Hydrogen.
 

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