Liquid Organic Fertilizer?

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by lbmd1, Sep 29, 2003.

  1. Cheryl

    Cheryl LawnSite Member
    from Florida
    Messages: 95


    Ric's style is to be as abrasive as possible while preaching to us about his knowledge, sense of honor, patriotism, and righteousness.

    I am surprised he hasn't asked anybody if they were licensed (although, I'm sure that's coming).

    He's probably a beaten down old CPO (when all you had to do was apply) with nothing to do but butt into others business and expound on the correctness of his thinking.

    He would be a good double for a Barney 5 (cause he is so pathetic), if he was funny. Instead he just gets under peoples skin.

    His advice is probably good, but who cares. I'd rather get bad advice than have to listen to his mouth.

    Ric, why don't you turn up the oxygen bottle. I think you are depriving your brain at our expense.
  2. 1MajorTom

    1MajorTom Former Moderator
    Messages: 6,073


    Read this posting guideline. You have broken this guideline with your attack against Ric.

    You are not permitted to post or mention information that contains content intended to victimize, harass, degrade, or intimidate an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, race, ethnicity, age, disability, or sexual orientation. Hate speech of any type will result in suspension at

    Ric's well capable of taking care of himself, and really doesn't need me to step in. But I think Ric's a good guy, and if you stick around long enough, I'm sure you will learn something from him.
  3. Green in Idaho

    Green in Idaho LawnSite Senior Member
    from Idaho
    Messages: 833

    CPO as in Chief???
  4. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969

    Certified Pesticide Operator
  5. Dchall_San_Antonio

    Dchall_San_Antonio LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 327

    I'll try to touch on the thoughts I can clarify from my previous post.

    Molasses diluted as much as I suggested is pretty thin and will not clog anything. I've seen folks recommend using it full strength in hose-end sprayers. I don't see how that would work at all. I use 3 ounces in my hose-end sprayer and fill the rest with water to spray 1,000 square feet. And, yes, I realize you folks don't use hose end sprayers, so I'm not suggesting it, I'm just saying how I use it at home.

    Kelp and molasses don't have much nitrogen. If I had a better idea for getting N into a organic liquid form, I would have suggested one. I suppose you could pee into it. Organic urea is prohibitively expensive which is why the synthetic urea is used. For y'all's use, the synthetic urea would be a great alternative IF the home owner agrees to use it. Chemically it is identical to the natural product, but there's that little technicality about how it's made.

    I generally don't suggest using blood meal as a fertilizer, because it is too hot for me; but blood would definitely get the N in there for you. I don't have a good rate for using blood meal as a spray (or anything else). If you're used to seeing the price for blood meal at the box stores, it can be had for a much better price in bulk at feed stores.

    And, yes Cheryl, Ric's writing style might not work on the Home Quilting Network board, but contrary to your observation, he is very astute to the in's and out's to professional lawn care. When he writes I read it very carefully. In general, if folks can't relax and stick to the original topics, I'll be inclined to close the discussion to stop counterproductive sniping.

    This organic board is uncharted waters for the professionals. There is a lot of skepticism about the whole topic. Up until I sort of started forcing the issue, the organic discussions were more or less dismissed for lack of credible defense. I'm trying to bring in what I've learned about the organic materials and useful products to give the folks who are looking for help some alternatives that work in the business world of mass production and state licensing.

    I'm not trying to twist anyone's arm to change from the standard Lesco program to all organic. I'm just presenting the organic program for those who have that inclination or customers who are looking for something different. I also do not have an ax to grind against chemical programs. Organics, as we understand it today, is not the be-all/end-all in defining Nature's Truth on how to manage the planet. It is an alternative that works when you know what you're doing.
  6. Grassmechanic

    Grassmechanic LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,697

    Well said, David
  7. driggy

    driggy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 20

    David, great mane(mine too), I am very happy that lawnsite has this forum, You manage it very well, it is very informative, on my lawn customers I think in spring, we will start out with the usual weed n feed then try corn meal for the follow ups, keep up the great work you are appreciated.
  8. Dchall_San_Antonio

    Dchall_San_Antonio LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 327

    WEED AND FEED? :eek:

    Right after I said I don't have an ax to grind over synthetics, this subject comes up!

    What the homeowner users are finding is that the weed killer in WNF products is mistimed. Does this ring true with y'all? Here's the theory as to why they are not getting perfect results. WNF products have an active ingredient that works best on actively growing weeds and the biological activity in the soil will deactivate it reasonably quickly after application. But the problem is that at first the weeds are busy benefitting from the Feed part of the WNF product at first and not really taking in the Weed killer. Then by the time the weed is growing healthy enough to absorb good amounts of the weed killer, it's too late. The W is decomposing. So the timing on those products is a problem. I'm listening to radio programs (I know, great scientific research sources :D ) and they are all getting down on WNF.

    What is being recommeded to replace WNF products is to apply a fertilizer (and this is independent of organic/synthetic issues) first and follow up in 2 weeks with a spot spraying of a selective herbicide (also independent of organic/synthetic). By doing it this way, the poison goes only to the target and it goes at the best time.

    There are other issues with using the WNF herbicide in areas where there are tree roots and making the trees sick (or worse).

    So rather than grinding my ax anymore, I'll ask whether we should open a new topic on this subject or am I more or less on track with this? If anyone thinks I'm not, please go ahead and open the new topic and I'll catch up later. :)
  9. Green in Idaho

    Green in Idaho LawnSite Senior Member
    from Idaho
    Messages: 833

    I disagree with that representation of how WNF functions.
  10. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    I also disagree with how you represented W&F. However I will say You are more open minded than I though. I will also try and be more open minded.

    It is not WHAT you do it HOW you do it. No home owner will not read a label and think if a little is good then a lot is better (in fact worst)

    Weed & Feed is nothing more than Fertilizer with a systemic herbicide. Most commercial feed and feeds are applied in the spring or fall for winter weeds. Application made to early before weed germination sometimes are not effective. Weeds must uptake the herbicide in order for it to work and this might take several weeks Most herbicides work by stopping photosynthetic and this also takes time. Most homeowner will not understand the time factor and retreat. Soil makes a big different. CEC or Cation Exchange Capacity or the soils ability to hold the chemicals will also determine the effect of W&F. Soil that hold herbicides will control weeds better because seeds will germinate and up take the herbicide. Soil Biota will help to degrade the herbicide so it doesn't hurt the environment. HERE IS WHERE ORGANICS ARE VERY IMPORTANT. SOM soil organic material has a high CEC and Biota. Poor soils can be enhanced by organic materials. This soil then holds water (increase Field capacity) CEC and soil Biota. Therefore less synthetic chemical are needed to allow are plants to express themselves to the fullest. Yes Organics are good and by using organic material you can decrease the impact of synthetics. Synthetic used wisely can fill the gap that organics can not. Bridge that Gap with Bridge products

    Here in the bug Capital of America insecticides are a necessary evil how every if Our Florida sand is enhanced by organic material then higher CEC and soil biota will help to keep leaching to a minim and give more residual

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