Low volume herbicides

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by B-Easy, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. B-Easy

    B-Easy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 85

    I've been researching the PG ride-on for awhile and took the next step today and went out to Lesco to ask some more questions. In the course of our back and forth he stated that only a herbicide labeled as low volume (of which they have 2 options, Red Zone and Momentum) could "legally" be used with the PG but that pretty much everyone used their 3-way herbicides and took their chances with the State. I don't know that I've seen this issue addressed in any previous threads re. the PG's. Any information would be appreciated.
  2. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,153

    Great question...but this has been discussed on here SEVERAL times actually.

    I think I am going to have to disagree with you Lesco man!

    If the label stated DO NOT spray at low volumes and you did then that is against the label.

    It just lists in the COMMENTS the gallons to be used. A lot of grey area really!

    It just depends on how you want to "read it".

    I just went through an ODA inspection about a month ago and the inspector went through a ton of my records. He never said anything about it.

    I also had my Lesco man check with the state and we are fine.

    As long as you apply the correct AI/given area...they could care less about the amount of carrier you use.

    Just call you state and ask them!

    I hope you didn't just open a can of worms that was closed a while back! :laugh: :cry: :hammerhead:
  3. SpreadNSpray

    SpreadNSpray LawnSite Senior Member
    from MN
    Messages: 363

    I couldn't get the 3way label off of lesco's web site but i did get the label off pbi gordon's for trimec 992. Trimec 992 list the mix rates at
    5-175 gallons of water per acre. The Permagreen falls within that.

    Call your state dept of ag. I called mine last year and asked about low volume. They were more concerned about application rates, not mix rates. They said I should be ok as long as I was calibrated within the application rates on the label.
  4. Blink74

    Blink74 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 138

    I have also been researching this for some time. I actually demoed one in the fall and used it to spray Momentum for broadleaf control. I was skeptical of using such low volume, but, it did the job.

    From what I understand the Threeway is too thick for regular use in the PG and will cause issues. I was told that Eliminate Lo is the Ideal product for the PG, as it is labeled and intended for low volume usage. I used it in my skid sprayer in early spring 07 and it worked as well as Momentum, plus it has little odor and cost less. I was also advised to use a different sticker in the PG but can't remember what it was.

    I think you are going to be limited to what can be sprayed with the PG. I'm ordering one soon and only plan to use it for broadleaf control and granular. I'll still have my skid sprayer for other incidental applications.
  5. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,153

    Three Way isn't thick at all! It has about the same "thickness" as water!

    There are absolutly NO issues with spraying Three Way with a PG.

    I went through 2 - 55 gallon drums last year if that makes you feel any better!

    PSUTURFGEEK LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 579

    You shouldn't have to feel like your'e gonna open a can of worms everytime a similar discussion comes up, I think that just makes everyone feel uncomfortable. Just help the guy out and don't worry about past differences.
  7. Blink74

    Blink74 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 138

    I may be mistaken. It may have been the three way ester formula or something different. My point is; there are products they recommend not using in the PG for one reason or another.

    BTW, no, it doesn't make me feel better that use used 2-55 gal drums last year.
  8. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,457

    I have used Three-way--no problem. I normally use regular Eliminate in my Permagreen Ultra--no problem. I have used Three-way Ester II--slight problem--I think perhaps it settled out overnight and was too strong the next morning, for the first 30 seconds.

    Now more recently, I have a mild sparge recirculating agitation system in my Permagreen tank.

    Has anyone devised a good agitation system for their Permagreen?
  9. Jason Rose

    Jason Rose LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,858

    How ironic, I was at the Lesco, errr, John deere Landscapes today too! I was there after 1:00 and spent about an hour talking to Larry.

    Never fear, he DOES know his stuff and is pretty fimiliar with the Permagreen. Yes, there are more and more products that are getting their labels changed so that they will include the ultra low volumes used in the PG and similar set-ups. I have used standard 3-way quite a bit in mine and it works fine. Legal? Honestly I couldn't recite you the label right off hand, but I believe it IS sort of vague when it comes to water volumes. Granted the 30oz. per K. is on the very bottom of the scale!

    I *try* to not leave chemical in the tank over night. Yes, some times it's unavoidable. Running the unit for a bit, driving, or even a stir stick is a good idea for getting the tank mixed back up good.

    PS. If you are really interested in it I'm sure he would be glad to dig it out and let you test drive it. He may even put some water in it and let you get a feel for the spray pattern etc. in the parking lot. (that's what I did before I bought mine) Also, you might wait a little while still, they may have some incintive programs (low or 0% financing and discounts) as it gets a little closer to spring. I got mine for 3 years no intrest!
  10. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,153

    I don't know of any LIQUID broadleaf products that you can't run with the PG.

    The only thing that I can think of is WP's or something as they may not work well as this unit has no agitation!

    I know a lot of people that run a ton of different products through their PG with no trouble at all!

    I am thinking I heave heard that there are certain surfactants and such that you can't run.

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