This thread isn't intended for me to boast about myself. I am trying to drive a point that we ("we" as in all contractors) do not need to push wall sales everytime the ground drops in elevation. With sowing grass seed, planting groundcover / vegatation, or building up the base - YOU CAN stabilize the soil and your interlocking pavement will last a lifetime. This makes me sick. I do so many consultations where the prospective clients tell me "the other contractors tell us we need a wall here..." Folks - yes walls are needed! BUT NOT FOR EVERY FRICKIN SCENERIO!!!! Take a good look at the slopes along you state highways. Steep slopes supporting the road - not stabilized with a wall - but stabilized with GRASS! I did an estimate this week where the owners told me the other contractor said "you need a six-inch high retaining wall..." LOL! "Six-inches"?? What in the world! That would be a trip hazzard! They DON'T need a wall, all you have to do is build up with a thicker base, and gradually taper soil out into the yard! I live on the side of a mountain. My backyard falls away. Infact, I have imported fill to where I have an 8-foot drop behind my home. I plan to build a patio to resemble a scenic overlook. I initially had thought that because of the drop in elevation - I would need a retaining wall to hold the patio. Well the fill has been in place for 4 years and has naturally settled. Wild vegatation has stabilized the fill. I NOW plan to construct my patio with NO wall. In the pic below, the other contractors wanted to sell the client a 16" high wall to retain the left side of the patio, where you see the juniper growing. We got the job because I assured the client that no wall is needed. I told them "get some ground cover established and that slope won't go anywhere". 4 years later nothin has moved, and the clients are content. If you tell them they need a wall, and you WANT the job - THEY BETTER NEED A WALL. Cause if a competent, veteran contractor comes along and prices the work - they're gonna get the job, as they ain't gonna sell something that isn't necessary.