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Momentum for violets, creep charlie, clover...

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by mower_babe, May 14, 2005.

  1. mower_babe

    mower_babe LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 790

    Ok, couple of bad lawns that have these three hard to kill weeds - violets, creeping charlie, and clover. Called Lesco and they say that there is no problem w using momentum to kill these, but it might take a follow-up spray 2-3 wks later to do the job. HOWEVER, anyone I have talked to in here, anyone I have talked to in town, and any research on here says that these three are very tough to kill and that it takes OTHER chemicals to do it. IN FACT, on two lawns, both homeowners contacted me to kill their violets and creeping charlie and clover and they told me that the other local guy that has been treating them for years said he cannot kill any of these three. I told them that we could and it is just a matter of finding the right chemical and or mix of chemicals and a matter of timing the applications. ;) (i hope)

    ALSO, while talking to the other local guy, when we were talking $, he asked us what was in our tank and we replied $100 worth of chemicals and he flipped, insinuating that we were investing way too much. He asked where we got the chemicals and we told him Lesco and he had never heard of them. wtf? I think he buys just from the farmers elevator here in town. His broadleaf spray is a bright yellow, but I don't know what he is actually using.

    Does anyone have an opinion on this and if they have found that Momentum takes care of the above? Please help if you can.
  2. MrBarefoot

    MrBarefoot LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 515

    I have found that old Momentum will control violets, creeping Charley and clover under the following conditions.

    1. Spray .5 gallons/1000 sq/ft
    2. Use at least 1.3 oz of Momentum/ 1000 sq/ft.
    3. Use Lesco spreader sticker at 2 cups /100 gallons.

    I found it works better to treat them in the spring. You may want to re-treat a few weeks later.

    Without knowing what was in his tank, it is difficult to make a comparison. I do know that Lesco will charge as much as they possibly can for whatever they sell you. If you haggle with them you will get a better price.

    I don't know where "the other local guy" gets his products, but I have found farmers elevators to be good places to get better prices. You can use the elevator to force Lesco into a better price for you.

    As far as Lesco goes, I personally think its best to think of them as adversaries that can help me. The reps try very hard to make you think they are partners, or even friends, but their goals are not your goals. Haggle them down every time.
  3. mower_babe

    mower_babe LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 790

    Oh, thank you thank you thank you. You have been most helpful. And as far as what the other guys uses, I am thinking that he uses something called 2-4-D. I could be completely off. Very new to this.
  4. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    2-4 D. This is one of the components in Lesco's 3 way. I would interested to know what he is using that is bright yellow. This would probably be the same thing that scam-lawn used to use.
  5. hole in one lco

    hole in one lco LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,793

    24d is the active ingredient in momentum and yes it will take care of all three
    I mix mine at 1 oz /1 gallon with sticker for spot spraying
  6. LwnmwrMan22

    LwnmwrMan22 LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,373

    Yes, go with MrBareFoot's ratings on the momentum, with the 1.3 oz / 1000. I've had very good success with Momentum on Creeping Charley and Clover here in MN.

    We don't have a very large problem with violets, so I can't give any results there, I don't target it.

    This year I've tried to drop down to 1 oz / 1000 and it's just not working quite as well. Could be the fact that it's been a high of 43 and rain for the last 3 days. ;)
  7. all ferris

    all ferris LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,309

    I go 1.5oz/1000(max label allows) and I usually don't have to make a follow up visit. However, this was with the old momentum. Only time will tell if momentum fx has enough kick to to do the same.
  8. turfmann

    turfmann LawnSite Platinum Member
    from PRM
    Messages: 4,536

    Your observation that the spray mix was yellow and that it's spring would lead me to believe that he is spraying Pre-M, a preemergent crabgrass control. The other posts are correct about Momentum controlling violets, ivy and clover - at least the old formulation did. Since they have reformulated without the clopyralid (I'm not going to go and look up the spelling) I haven't had an opportunity to see if it still does, and I won't likely, since the price went way up.

    BTW, take what your competitor says with a big grain of salt. I think its just human nature to criticize people, especially when you're doing a better job.
  9. mower_babe

    mower_babe LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 790

    Thanks for the advice. I should know better. This guy was fined a few years back for dumping his extra chemicals behind a cemetary that led to a stream. That is not hearsay, it was publicized. AND he is all sorts of p!ssed off that we are spraying (this town has 40k people.) He has confronted us on several occasions and has mentioned that we are to have a special sort of pit, wash station and containment situation. Is there a website for these specific questions (in IL), or are we better off contacting Springfield directly? It would just be nice to be able to print the facts off. I know there has to be a resource. Thanks.
  10. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    This pit that he is mentioning; It IS possible that you are required to have a loading pad for your tank. We are required to have on here in Michigan. It is specified to hold a certain amount in the event of a spill. This is also accompanied by certain spec.s like a minimum amount of distance to the filling spigot, and a backflow preventer. You can call your Dept. of Ag., and they would give you the details. Incidentally, there is a certain amount that you have to fill before requiriing this loading pad. Going to a Permagreen (or similar model), you bypass all this. I hope this helps.

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