more regulations

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by humble1, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. humble1

    humble1 LawnSite Silver Member
    from MA
    Messages: 2,519

  2. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    I don't have a problem with this, for several reasons, some selfish, some not.

    I am in the neighboring county. When I first went out wth my door hangers, I saw sevaral warning flags out, and that was around Feb 11. I don't know who was applying, but that is just way too early. We DO have a nitrate problem with our wells. 4 out of 8 got shut down last year due to high nitrate levels in my municipal water district.

    No small wonder that a Scotts spokesman was against it. They have to start early just to get their billings in and keep crews busy. For me, as a small LCO, it creates no pressure on me at all, since I won't apply before April 1 anyway. There is the selfish reason. Heck, I might even use that article as a reprint handout.

    Like I said, that is a selfish reason, and the folks here who do apps only, would obviously not be too thrilled with a restriction like this, but understand, our sandy loam leaches very fast. This isn't midwest clay we have.... and I have to drink the water too.

    I have been fishing the Peconic River system for large mouth bass for 30 years here. Caught several trophies in the process (for NY, anything over 20" is considered trophy size) The pest weeds and algae have almost killed the estuary. There IS too much N runoff here, plain and simple.

    Merit got into the wells 3 years after it was introduced, and now it is RUP.... our soil leaches fast. I see this as a reasonable restriction for THIS area. What does bother me is that when restrictions like this go into affect in an area where it makes sense, there is some mindset that if it's OK for this area, it must be OK everywhere else too.

    Our cooperative extensions have a lot of say in such matters. All the more reason to know those folks on a personal level. They are educated, and for the most part, are reasonable people. The ones that have to be watched are the politicians, who would attempt to make a rep on false "I'm protecting you" sort of rhetoric with only self promotion as their ultimate agenda and goal.
  3. turf hokie

    turf hokie LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,751

    So all of your fertilizer is applied by Halloween???? We are just finishing our fall apps by then we go out STARTING Nov 1 with our winter round. Now if that law comes here what are we going to do? Our goal is to finish our winter round by Thanksgiving, yes we always have a few stragglers into Dec b/c of leaves but the lawns have not gone dormant by Thanksgiving and still store the N that we are putting down.

    We dont start our first round unitl April 1 either it is the winter application that has me all worked up.

    Go after the friggin homeowners for pete's sake and leave the pros alone for once.
  4. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    That is exactly who they are trying to stop, it is a water quality issue. Not a " lets put the lawn and landscape business, out of business"

    “It’s really just common sense,” said Neal M. Lewis of the Neighborhood Network, an environmental group in Farmingdale. “A lot of people are walking into the stores and picking this stuff up well in advance of the time it should be applied, and nobody is telling them to stop.”

    Overuse and misapplication of nitrogen-rich fertilizers are degrading or putting at risk waters of all descriptions at an accelerating rate and must be curbed, the county says, and at least some of the problem has to do with untimely applications.

    Violators of the law, the first of its kind in New York, will risk $1,000 fines for fertilizing outside the permitted period. “We are not establishing a fertilizer Gestapo, but if someone was caught that would be fine,” said Steve Levy, the county executive. “If we get a call from a neighbor, we will pursue it.”
  5. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    The EPA released a study done from 1999 to 2005 nationwide, they found that 18% of the wells and 24% of the rivers were so contaminated with N, P and pesticides that they should not be used as a water source.

    It is a water quality issue
  6. group501

    group501 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 174

    Once again a band-aid is be used to treat a gaping wound. It is unfortunate that other counties will probably follow Suffolk and adopt similar restrictions. These restrictions usually will only make it harder for those operating within the boundaries of the law to run a successful business. If there really is such a concern for what our fertilizers are doing to the environment then why not go after the real problem. How much extra nitrogen is being applied by homeowners who feel that if a little fertilizer is good than more is better? How many times have you seen lco's applying fertilizer to the streets and driveways and not cleaning up the mess? A licensed operator following a sound turf program with properly calibrated equipment is not the problem. Why not step up enforcement in the areas where the problem really exists? I am also concerned about our environment and feel that laws like these being passed in Suffolk are only a paper pacification for the tree huggers and will serve no real benefit.
  7. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    Hokie, I agree, the fall deadline is too early. I also agree that it is primarilly the home owners doing all the polluting. The home owners will also ignore this law, so it has no teeth. If they wanted to fix the problem, they would restrict retail sales of ferts to those dates as well, but Scotts has a lot of money, and these politicians can be had cheap.

    It doesn't affect me, not yet, anyway, but I'm sure it will migrate into Nassau county eventually. If it does, I can still do all of my winter apps in the last week of October. Being a small LCO means it won't have a big impact on my business. It will make things very tough on the TruGreens and Scotts spray guys though. It will actually help me, but that's just luck of the draw.
  8. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,159


  9. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,667

    This would be a problem around here, for myself and anybody who is not in maintenance, but mainly a lawn treatments application business. I (and most of my competitors) start the day the snow melts--about March 15 most years.

    I am happy to comply with laws based on facts and confirmed numerical data. But why restrict lawn busineses and ignore the impact of agriculture? Ignore faulty septic systems? Why does the country allow septic systems?

    Since the ground is seldom frozen at mid March--is there any actual data that shows that application in March results in more run-off or more leaching than at other times of the year? How is it different if 50 percent is slow release? 75%? IBDU compared to SCU compared to MU? Is there any actual data showing what percent of fertilizer is taken up by the grass roots as compared to April?

    Michigan Stae University has excellent data on fertilizer and leaching to ground water. They have 20 years of leachate data from large in-ground stainless steel lysimeters.
  10. PR Fect

    PR Fect LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,076

    Why do they allways twist the truth or give the story a slant? The article reads "Quick-release or synthetic fertilizers" and later says "do less to promote lasting lawn health than slow-release organic fertilizers." Its true that slow release is better for the long term health of a stand of turf, I will agree. But why the association that organics are slow release and synthetics are quick release? Its no wonder even some in our own industry and on this site do not understand the true problem and how little properly applied lawn fertilizers are in the real cause. To much miss guided information out there. And to many law makers willing to put a false fix on it. PR

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