Lawn Care Forum banner
1 - 20 of 79 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
6,990 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
some of you know that little project of digging a hole for a swamp i have started, well i have a quick question. i was planing on using a 160 to dig and pile the dirt and then use my 332 and the kodiak to haul the dirt the 300 yards to the stock pile. does that sound some what effecient?

i was then thinking about renting a 966 or 744 loader to haul the dirt because it should do it way faster then my kodiak, plus my old girl wont have to work so hard.

then....... i was thinking why not just dig the hole with the 966 to? why move it twice?

the loader should dig it kind of easy in the hard clay right? i figure use a tooth bucket.

what one would you do?
 

· Banned
Joined
·
9,721 Posts
A dump truck is the quickest way to move the material if you direct load from excavator to dump truck truck goes dumps the load while your scraping and raking the material back. A tandem axle would be better so you can atleast put 16 yards into it. Like I said before you can always get the hole dug and the material bailed to the outside. After the hole is dug then you can move the material at a less hurried pase.

A wheel loader needs good conditions to work in start getting in soft ground or uneven ground not good.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,147 Posts
Loaders are terribly slow at loading a bucket of virgin soil. Watching paint dry is faster, tooth bucket or not. It can be done, but it's just not efficient enough. Even then, on ground that isn't packed very hard, you'll spin the tires a hell of alot trying to get that bucket full. It would be very frustrating and time consuming, not to mention expensive on the fuel. We ran a 744H at the grounds and after a whole day of running it I think we averaged about 40 gallons in an 8 hour day. I will commend you for trying to do everything with one machine, but I think hogging it out with an excavator and using the loader to move it from the hole to the dump site is a good option.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,990 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Loaders are terribly slow at loading a bucket of virgin soil. Watching paint dry is faster, tooth bucket or not. It can be done, but it's just not efficient enough. Even then, on ground that isn't packed very hard, you'll spin the tires a hell of alot trying to get that bucket full. It would be very frustrating and time consuming, not to mention expensive on the fuel. We ran a 744H at the grounds and after a whole day of running it I think we averaged about 40 gallons in an 8 hour day. I will commend you for trying to do everything with one machine, but I think hogging it out with an excavator and using the loader to move it from the hole to the dump site is a good option.
thank you very much for that, you speak from experience so i will do as you say and use two machines.

i was just trying to cut cost and save $, i can rent a 966 for $2,000 for a week, i dont believe it will take that long but thats what it costs. if i use the dump and ctl i will save that 2g's
 

· Registered
Joined
·
28,605 Posts
But remember that 2g's could end up being spent on time because it took an extra week which would be money your putting out. or the 2g's could go to parts on the kodiak which could break on the second load and then you would have to rent the 966 pay 2 grand and then spend another 2 grand or more on parts for your truck.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,990 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
But remember that 2g's could end up being spent on time because it took an extra week which would be money your putting out. or the 2g's could go to parts on the kodiak which could break on the second load and then you would have to rent the 966 pay 2 grand and then spend another 2 grand or more on parts for your truck.
you are very right, thats what im thinking about. i would rather get it done and get on i have enough to do.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,147 Posts
I understand you're trying to watch the costs. I'd say if you have time to do it with your truck and Deere, I'd go that route. Like I said, it could be done with a loader, but I think you'd almost be faster with your machine. You gotta figure a 5 yard bucket on a 966 would be a real bear to load trying to dig into virgin soil. The loader will never load that bucket making a cut in one swipe, it just won't do it. You'll lose traction. You would have to make one swipe, fill it a good portion of the way, roll back, then take another bite. By this time, you could've had your rig loaded up with 9 yards of material and gone by the time you screwed around trying to get 5 into that bucket. At least that's how I see it, especially if you're saying that 200 was having a hard time getting into that material, a loader would have one hell of a time.

The only other thing I'm trying to figure out is where you're going to put this dirt. You say you're going to hog it with a 160, you'll never reach the pile from everywhere. I almost think a dozer would be better for moving all that dirt into one pile. Even then, you almost need another person hauling the dirt off to the dump site.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,306 Posts
Load with excavator. Any time material is handled more than one time, you are wasting money. These other guys are equipment operators for someone else, you are a business owner. You need to be thinging bottom line, not how do I get all my equipment envolved.

I have moved more dirt that these guys, One is a Half employeed just out of the union triaining course operator, One is a 15 year old pool guy, the other a government worker.

Sorry guys.

Use your truck, get a custom hauler in there with you, and get this job done. You should be able to do this in 2 days or so.


J.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,147 Posts
Thanks for that low blow. He's digging a pond, unless you can get that kodiak down into it, I don't see a better route. I had thought about saying just load the truck with the excavator but figured that had been thought of and looked beyond.

Have fun playing with your minis tomorrow while my crew is running 3 400's. Yep, I know nothing of what I'm doing.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,990 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
its very hard dirt a truck will drive on it no problem. but i dont know if i can haul out 2500 or so yards in a week with only one truck, maybe if i had 2 or 3 running circles the excavator could stay running the whole time.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,306 Posts
Hey I'm not trying to low blow. I'm just stating a fact. And don't low blow my mini's I own them. Plus Where you want to be. I was. Got real tired of it. I know it all seems nice. Running the big stuff, but at some point its going to get old. Plus (Not to go to low here) Since you got out of school, How many days have you worked? We work every day.

I Do like you. I would love to have a guy like you on my team. But alas, I have small stuff so I know nothing.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
9,721 Posts
The job I did last summer we filled a large area probably moved thousands of yards of material. Most jobs we have to move lots of material.

Using a loader to dig a hole will take too long a excavator will be faster.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,147 Posts
Hey I'm not trying to low blow. I'm just stating a fact. And don't low blow my mini's I own them. Plus Where you want to be. I was. Got real tired of it. I know it all seems nice. Running the big stuff, but at some point its going to get old. Plus (Not to go to low here) Since you got out of school, How many days have you worked? We work every day.

I Do like you. I would love to have a guy like you on my team. But alas, I have small stuff so I know nothing.
I work when it doesn't rain, at least right now that's the schedule. It's not a matter of me being worthless and not getting called in some days. Can't run trucks up a 3.5:1 ramp out of a 35 foot deep hole when the ramp is mud, no trucks, no work for me. Got sent to another job today to stay busy, same story there. We have 30,000 yards of material to strategically finish grade and remove but it's too soggy to even get the 6's out there to do it. I honestly take serious offense to anyone who bashes apprentices. Sure, there are a lot of us with zero experience right out of the hall, but there are some of us with some prior experience. Not like the union takes just anyone, I was up against 1,200 applicants when I applied and was selected #2 out of 1,200. While I haven't done everything nor will I ever claim to, I still have 5 years in the biz. I can out-operate anyone my age and I will stand behind that. Before our Top Hand competition earlier this summer, got a chance to do some of the contests on backhoe and excavator. My times matched my instructors. I don't really like to toot my horn, not my style, but I'd like to think I have a a little going for me. Right now I'm trying to learn about the costs on the jobs we're on. I'm the new guy, so asking those dumb questions to the boss is sure to get some interesting remarks, so I keep my mouth shut but try to figure out everything I can on the bidding side of things.

At some point, I will be running my own show. I know this is going to get lame at some point but at 22, I just don't have the funds nor the stability in my life to buy a bunch of iron, as much as I'd love to go that route. For right now, running the big stuff is a blast and I'm doing stuff that I wouldn't get to do otherwise. I'm not stupid, far from it, I know just as well as you do moving material twice is costing you money 3 times. The problem with this guy's job isn't so much getting the right machine, it's getting the trucks. That 160 would stay busy all day if you had 2 trucks cycling. What's a truck out there for a day? $700? Multiplied by 2 and you'll be into this job for $1400 a day plus the cost of the excavator. That is the issue with hiring out a bunch of trucks. While it's definately efficient, I don't think it's in the budget on this one.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
Picasso, I think your idea of using a large loader like a 966 is an excellent idea for a one man operation trying to complete a job under a certain budget.

Based on your job conditions of having minimal manpower, a sizeable haul distance, and a limited budget, a large loader like a 966 should suit you well. A loader like a 966 has plenty of power to muscle a 5 yd bucket through some tough material, especially with a tooth bucket. Once you dig down to the grade at the bottom of your new "pond" and assuming the material you're driving on is still a hard clay, you should have no problem hogging that material out. Sure, you won't be able to fill the bucket completely in one pass, but it will be alot faster to dig the hole with a 5 yd bucket versus a 1-2yd bucket on the CT. Once you add in the time not spent jumping out of your CT and into your dump truck every 9 yds of material and then repeating that after you dump your load, the efficiency of the loader becomes apparent in the reduced cycle time versus the truck and CT. (Also, I think your body might like you a little more at the end of the day if you don't have to keep changing cabs every 10 mins ;-)) Add in the wear and tear on your equipment for what seems to be a hard digging situation, and that loader starts to look like a good option.

Again, I don't know exactly what jobsite conditions you're dealing with, but a loader sounds like it might be a good option for you. Would it be more fun to get several pieces of iron on site and use them versus renting and running a loader (which gets very boring after awhile) for several days? You bet! Is it the best business decision? Probably not. Run your numbers and really think hard about what 1500 cycles of tearing into the soil will do to your CT versus renting the loader. Like jlm said, that rental could look very good after you have to replace a major part on either your loader or truck, or both.
Also, please post pics and keep us updated!:cool2: Good luck and have fun!
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top