MSMA (Good vs. Bad)

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by lawnspecialties, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. lawnspecialties

    lawnspecialties LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,524

    I'm becoming a big fan of MSMA. I bought some Target 6.6 from JDL and it's proving to be quite beneficial in the bermudagrass vs. crabgrass.

    But I do have a few questions being how this is my first year of spraying post-emergent herbicides.

    1. What's with MSMA regarding environmental concerns? Is it not true they can't make MSMA anymore? If so, why? I was told once it's all gone, that's it.

    2. Is there anything else comparable for crabgrass control in bermudagrass? It appears Q4 will possibly be labeled for bermudagrass and of course, there's Drive, but in my opinion, they're no better but more expensive.
  2. EVM

    EVM LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 384

    MSMA is a hot herbicide i think. I think i spray MS at 1 ounce per 2.5k
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    VARMIT COMMISSION LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 547

    MSMA rocks! It control's so many grassy weeds and covers quite a few broadleafs too. Main one is dandy's. 2010 is the last year here in oklahoma to apply it. There is no replacement either. Drive doesnt even compare to the list of weeds MSMA will control. Q4's expensive too and I have yet to hear from anyone here in Oklahoma who use's it and is satisfied with it. Drive in the south will fry our grass faster and longer than MSMA will. Probably the MSO that makes it so hot. MSMA with no sticker added works just fine in hot temps.
  4. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,975

    One thing to note about Drive in the South is its lack of activity on goosegrass. I remember talking to someone from BASF about Drive and they told me I was not missing much, because it would actually cause a weed population to shift from crabgrass to goosegrass. That would be significant for BASF, given that Bayer makes the alternative goosegrass herbicides for use in bermuda.
  5. johnsonslawnmanagement

    johnsonslawnmanagement LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 908

    The whole fuss over MSMA is it's arsenic content. I have heard may rumors that it will be off the market but no signs of stopping here in the south
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  6. lilmarvin4064

    lilmarvin4064 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 757

    from what I understand the "arsenate" in it bonds tightly with soil particles and shouldn't move much, but I could be wrong. MSMA works good and is cheap. I use it pretty much only for Dallisgrass and Broomsedge. I usually only spot spray (and once or twice burnt and a few spots down to the ground) oops. You have to be very carefull with weather conditions (temp,etc) and mix rate. There is little room for error. A few areas that I blanket sprayed, I considered myself lucky (removed Broomsedge w/ 1 app) reseeded 1 month later and it is looking great! (last year) I talked with a knowledgable guy about MSMA about a week ago. He said it can only be sold through 2010, but if you have it after that, you can still use it; not really sure?..

    Also I'm a big fan of organosilicone surfactants, I use them with everything. They seem to have less phytotoxic potential than the MSO, and alkylaryl .... stuff, at least from what I've seen.

    Oh, and my opinion on Q4, it only has a 3/4 rate of quin, and 1/2 rate of sulfentrazone. They need to tweak the formula. I have much better results mixing my own. Plus they're still using the dimethlyamine salt of 2,4-D? Why not TIPA or MCPA instead? maybe too expensive?
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2009
  7. grassman177

    grassman177 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,795

    i have had good luck with q4 here. but it does not cover those dallisgrass and johnson like msma. i just stocked up on it so i have plenty for years to come as for now there is nothing else to get those weeds. i have sprayed trimec plus in 85 degrees out of my zspray and it did great. i was worried but did great. they better come up with an alternative to kill those weeds or we are gong to get bit
  8. Grass.Catcher

    Grass.Catcher LawnSite Member
    Messages: 3

    MSMA is being phased out. You can buy it throuh 2009 nad use it until the end of 2010. You will no longer be able to purchase it after this year.
  9. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,975

    Note that this ban might be written such that all unused MSMA in your inventory might have to be turned in after 2010. I am hoping that reasonable minds prevail and it is found that a routine application to turf grown on normal soil does not leach arsenic into groundwater. Whoever was/is spraying this on sandy soils on a high water table right before heavy rainfall is expected screwed the pooch for all of us.
  10. Think Green

    Think Green LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,746

    Same here in the Delta, MSMA will be discontinued and sold after 2010. I am under the impression, that it will be used in small quaranteed places like the golf courses and sod production fascilities, and will not be available for the general market. I surmise the EPA will restrict this product and make it hard to purchase.
    MSMA is used here as a pre plant burn down next to glyphosate. It is definately cheaper to use and kills more weeds than most expensive counterparts. It is a widely used herbicide in the south--it takes heat to make this product work effectively!!
    It bonds with soil particles here in our pedical soils?? Elemental Arsenic is considered poisoning to the water table. The EPA plans on post-studying the water and soil composites after the ban. I want to know what they find.............probably-- Jimmy Hoffa too!!!?

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