msma restrictions?

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by georgialawn88, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. grassman177

    grassman177 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,795

    it is dif by state, but here even my inspector cant give me a clear cut answer. told me i can use what i got until it is gone, or until further notice.

    i stocked up and got 15 gal each of msma, and trimec plus!!!! been a dream. but, i have begun starting testing of alternatives, and they are for the most part just as good, but not as all inclusive...have to use more dif chems, instead of just one
  2. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969

    The "USE BY DATE" is so people won't stock pile a product that the EPA feel is no longer safe for our environment. I am still good friends with the former Ag Inspector who is now working for a Chemical Company. He tells a story of finding 50 gallons of Chlordane in a chemical room the Secretary opened up for him on a surprise inspection. I am sure there are barns all over the country with Out Of Date Pesticides in 55 gallon durms.

    Those who would stock pile ban pesticides, will still use them after the Use By Date. They just are very careful not to leave a paper trail. If the 50 gallons of Chlordane was re-labeled as a Legal Product in the chemical room My buddy would never of caught them.

  3. Duekster

    Duekster LawnSite Fanatic
    from DFW, TX
    Messages: 7,961

    I think they can best accomplish that by setting up production limits and sell by dates. Use by dates are foolish.

    IE, someone would be more careful about using a product of limited supply and only use it on weeds not controlled by other availble technologies.
  4. Think Green

    Think Green LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,746

    Ric.........Ironic you mentioned this because a couple seasons ago, I ran across a estate sale in which a retired man for the State Agricultural division had a stockpile of stuff in his shop. The wife had no idea what was in there with lock and key. She tried to sell me 50# of bagged Chlordane, Dursban, Lindane, and a couple others. I was shocked but not too terrified as I contacted the state inspector. Suddenly, by the end of the day, I returned to inquire to her.....she mentioned someone came by and purchased the whole lock-stock-and barrel.
    We all don't need to feel under the wind about this type of activity. Considering all other things in this world that is being done illegally, this action is petty.

    I am one of these people that wishes the products that we use was taken off the market from the hands of the consumer. But in reality---this will not happen until it becomes banned. Then the consumer will just get it from whomever. It is no different than running alcohol, tobacco, prescription medications,etc.
    The more the laws become restricted, the more people will find ways to get it.
    This was a general discussion response Ric, and not directed to you. I am posting this to all other members.

    I talked to a district manager of Terminex a month ago about Dursban.
    He told me that the product was removed under the table. It seemed that the industry needed the product but with others coming on the market, the product took a shot in the groin. All employees that used the product was subject to stringent testing for exposure. All companies that used the product was mandated to have all tested at expensive centers. If the companies chose to continue using the product had to do random tests for exposure and a lot of yearly paperwork and expense was necessary. So, It became a no brainer to discontinue use of Dursban due to yearly fees and employee exposure risks.
    Does any of this make sense or was this just baloney???
  5. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    Fact of Life Think Green. Chemical manufactures are only interested in the God All Mighty Dollar and as soon as a product goes Off Patent it gets bad mouthed so a Patented Product can replace it at a Higher selling price for MORE PROFIT.

    As for the Stock pile of Chemical Oldies at the Yard Sale. I would have jumped on the Lindane in a NYC second and not felt guilty at all. $ 0.50 of Lindane can save a $ 5,000 Pineapple palm from Palm Bores. There is no good replacement for Lindane, so make it a RUP that only a CPO can apply.

  6. turfmd101

    turfmd101 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,376

    Wow Ric, Lindane, great pick. Sure do miss that OP. Especially when bifenthrin was suggested as a replacement to Lindane. No way!

    I believe when Asulox lost its residential turf label. Most users of this product I spoke with mentioned they would keep their empty legal residential labeled containers then purchased Ag labeled product and pour it into the older container. Since there was no time limit on when the old label product had to be used. It made sense to hold on to the old container as long as possible and refill as needed. This activity may have added to more, end dates of product use.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  7. bug-guy

    bug-guy LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,032

    the problem i see with semi banned products(and my that i mean the product is still out there, maybe a slight name change, but it lost some of it's label usage). Here in town someone sells an aslux product (was used to kill carpetgrass in St. Aug.) the market was not large enought to justify the reregistration of this product for rsidental lawns.
    Now lic. operaters have nothing easliy availible to use, but a homeowner can go in and buy it and use, with really no risk... no lic to lose.
  8. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969

    Asulox was one of those products taken off the Market because Re-registration for Horticulture cost more than the Profit margin. Farmers still buy it by the Train car load, so that 2.5 gallon jug a CPO buys once a year just doesn't pay the toll.

    Yes you can go on E bay and Buy repackaged Asulox in smaller than the 2.5 gallon jug the manufacture uses. Not totally Legal of course but the EPA seem to turn a blind eye to this practice. BASF never stopped the sale of Termidor on line either when Termidor was still labeled as a PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY and BASF required a special training certification for a CPO to buy it.

  9. bug-guy

    bug-guy LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,032

    that only applies to 78 oz or larger
  10. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969

    Now it does. But at one time it also applied to the 20 oz size.


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