My customers Paver patio Heaved!

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by gofastjd, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Oxmow

    Oxmow LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,089

    So if this is an "edge retention problem" why has nothing closer to the edge cracked loose? This looks more akin to a concrete slab cracking or tile inside a house on top of a concrete slab crack. Those cracks aren't caused by "edge retention" They are caused by foundation problems. Most people don't understand what clay soils can do to construction. Clay can swell like those toy pills you put in the "bathub". (sic) It can also shrink a lot too.

    All that being said, a concrete slab underneath with uber rebar and non poly sand in the joints may be the only recourse. Oh yeah and french drain it too.

    I would ask them to help pay for the concrete part, and if they refuse, fix it just like you built it and then you have no more liability.
    hort101 likes this.
  2. visionscapes35

    visionscapes35 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 7

    im wondering if maybe :
    1-the areas along the house and perimeter of patio both settled yet the middle did not, so the middle didnt heave up, it stayed true, surrounding areas sank, or
    2. water is getting trapped under the patio in the middle, and when it had no where else to go, it had to go up, in the areas where you see the heaving?
  3. patiobob

    patiobob LawnSite Member
    Messages: 14

    I ran across this and had to comment. This is a fascinating example of what I come across on a regular basis over 25 years installing pavers. The first thing you mention is that there was a concrete patio there to begin with. That is number one problem with this install. You don't have a heaving issue! What you have is settlement along the house where the concrete was "hanging". I'd bet there were even holes under that concrete along the house and outer edges, or significant cracking? For that reason, along the house backfill soil has never "settled" completely and you might as well still be dealing with new construction. There was no weight on the soils, nor much water ever getting in there. The second thing I see on this project is a "fault" line. I see many comments asking about your edge restraint. I doubt it, or the edges would have actually failed, not sections. So here is my next question. Did you expand beyond what was the original concrete slab area with your pavers? Are the crack lines in the pavers following the edges of original concrete slabs? I'd bet this is a compaction issue again. I don't see a heaving issue in any way shape or form, it is a settlement issue, just like the engineer told you. All the edges settled and you ended up with what looked like heaving in the center. The new sections outside the original slabs were excavated to a different depth and compacted separately. Now, the pavers moved in exact pattern to how you expanded the patio around the original concrete slabs. Under the concrete was never compacted properly around the home when it was installed and you are still dealing with the issues it created today!
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    hort101 and redmax fan like this.
  4. patiobob

    patiobob LawnSite Member
    Messages: 14

    One last comment. You can still see the scuff marks from the final compaction of the pavers with your machine. Get one of those pads for your machine. For the homeowner and you to spend all that time and money on an expensive paver like the one you used, and then ruin the final look during the last 10 minutes of the install is not as professional as it could be. It took me many years to purchase one of those pads, but with the new high texture pavers, it really is required now.
  5. Oxmow

    Oxmow LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,089

    So am I missing a post or has the OP not been here since the initial question back in Nov?
    hort101 likes this.
  6. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 17,490

    If the house or part of the foundation settled that much , you’d think somebody would know it
  7. patiobob

    patiobob LawnSite Member
    Messages: 14

    I highly doubt the foundation settled that much this many years later. I'm assuming the concrete patio removed was at least over 6 years old. Any settlement occurred in the first two years, and it would have been minor otherwise the original poster would have mentioned there was major house movement. The fact that the original poster does mention that the concrete was very cracked tells us that it was not installed over a good base to begin with. Concrete will crack and leave voids under it as the soil does settle, but that doesn't mean the soil is properly compacted, only that the top few inches settled. Because there is no additional weight or materials filling the voids, or even water getting in there probably, it never fully settles. The mason that installed it didn't care, he just poured right over whatever was there knowing full well his concrete would "hang" over any voids till long after his check cleared. Best solution for this now is to take out failed sections, flood the area(s) with water for several hours to the point of major pooling and soil saturation, let it perk out for a few days, then come back, compact and reinstall the pavers. The water will settle the rest of the soil much deeper than any compactor and create natural compaction. It will never move again. You can install some grid if you like, but you don't have to remove the entire patio or base. If you notice the brick wall failure, that is also caused by settling. I'd guess that footing was also separate from the house footing and not a continuous pour.
    hort101 likes this.
  8. Oxmow

    Oxmow LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,089

    So wheres the OP to tell us what happened???
  9. GrassManKzoo

    GrassManKzoo LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Kalamazoo, MI
    Messages: 5,076

    He hasn’t been on since he started this thread
    hort101 likes this.
  10. 4 seasons lawn&land

    4 seasons lawn&land LawnSite Gold Member
    from NY
    Messages: 3,749

    He read the first 3 pages about edge restraint and realized he was wasting his time here

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