[Johnh2023]

I work with a nonprofit and we have approximately 40 acres of lawns to maintain. Mowing has been outsourced for a decade and we're considering bringing it in-house as our long-term vendor is getting out of the business.

TN unlevel terrain so lots of rolling hills and slopes. One large Bermuda sports field that needs to be kept at ~1.5-2” in the hot months so mowing it about every 3 days.

Local dealers are Kubota, Spartan/ExMark, and Scag in that order of distance.

I’m partial to Scag but they only have models with the Vanguard engines. Kubota is about the same price and closer. I don’t know much about them other than a good reputation. Slightly put off from Spartan and ExMark because the dealer just isn’t great.

Any words of wisdom or recommendations? Searching for a ~60” ZT and a ~54” stand on.
I budgeted around $25k for two machines so I think all options are on the table. Just a lot to choose from. Feels like we can’t really go wrong, but I would like to prioritize longevity. I plan to be here for the next 20+ years and would love to see the same machines in service when I’m calling it quits.

Thanks for any input you all have.

 

[Ridin' Green]

Welcome!

Get a Scag and be glad to have the Vanguard. They are very good engines. Get one of the big efi models to make it easy to handle hills at speed etc.

 

[Johnh2023]

Welcome!

Get a Scag and be glad to have the Vanguard. They are very good engines. Get one of thee big efi models to make it easy to handle hills at speed etc.

Thanks for the input. They have a Turf Tiger 31HP Vanguard non-EFI or Cheetah/Tiger Cat 37HP EFIs. Any direction on these? TT feels like a great platform and the old man in me says carbureted engines are simpler but more maintenance.

Cheetah didn’t seem very compelling for the price so basically TT 31HP Vanguard non-EFI vs. Tiger Cat 37HP EFI. Both Vanguards.

 

[Ridin' Green]

I would prefer the Cheetah to the TC II any day. If you get a TT with a 61" deck, that 31 should be plenty. If you get a 72" deck, definitely get the bigger engine.

 

[monoshock]

You need to throw a walk behind hydro the mix for the steep banks.
I'm in East TN, I know.

 

[Brucey]

What kind of land? Will it support 80 hours of labor a week? If there's a lot of wide open areas consider a WAM (wide area mower) for one of the mowers. Could save a lot on labor (if desired).

 

[Brucey]

Nevermind just read your post more carefully. WAM is out.

 

[monoshock]

Wide open flat areas could be mowed with a small tractor with a belly mount deck.

 

[Johnh2023]

I would prefer the Cheetah to the TC II any day. If you get a TT with a 61" deck, that 31 should be plenty. If you get a 72" deck, definitely get the bigger engine.

Curious why you say Cheetah over TCII. I have a good relationship with the owner of the Scag dealer and she tells me they only stock Cheetahs because that’s what they could get. Pushed me towards the TC or TT. Definitely only doing 61”. 72” is overkill for these lawns. Glad to hear 31HP is sufficient.

 

[Johnh2023]

Wide open flat areas could be mowed with a small tractor with a belly mount deck.

I’m exploring a reel mower for the sports field. Already use a medium size Kubota tractor with finish mower for some perimeter maintenance and fields that aren’t worth the hay. Thank you very much for the input, appreciate everyone here participating!

 

[Johnh2023]

You need to throw a walk behind hydro the mix for the steep banks.
I'm in East TN, I know.

I thought so too. Wanted a V Ride II but on back order. Kubota has a comparable model but priced at $10,100 vs a Scag w/ Valkyrie for $7k. My main guy said ONLY stand on but is it really worth the $3k?

 

[MowDaddy]

You won't get 25 yrs out of any mower. At least not without replacing every part a couple times.

 

[Johnh2023]

You won't get 25 yrs out of any mower. At least not without replacing every part a couple times.

And that is fine. Not afraid of maintenance. Just want to spend the money on the best value.

 

[MowDaddy]

Mowing has been outsourced for a decade and I want to bring it in-house and add two good paying full time jobs.

Are you thinking it will be cheaper than contract mowing?
Also it should not take 2 people 40 hrs to mow 40 acres. 1 person on ztr should be able to mow 20 acres in 1 day.
Also, by going in house. Yes that creates a (good paying in house job). But also costs someone else a good paying job.
Plus added insurance, fuel, maintenance, liability.
My view is always as follows.
We are a lawncare company, we take care of banks, senior homes, townships, etc. The bank doesn't want to own mowers, store gas, trimmers, blowers, edgers etc. Then hire another staff to mow lawn. They do banking, we do mowing.

 

[J. Baker]

Are you thinking it will be cheaper than contract mowing?
Also it should not take 2 people 40 hrs to mow 40 acres. 1 person on ztr should be able to mow 20 acres in 1 day.
Also, by going in house. Yes that creates a (good paying in house job). But also costs someone else a good paying job.
Plus added insurance, fuel, maintenance, liability.
My view is always as follows.
We are a lawncare company, we take care of banks, senior homes, townships, etc. The bank doesn't want to own mowers, store gas, trimmers, blowers, edgers etc. Then hire another staff to mow lawn. They do banking, we do mowing.

Amen!

Although I’m not convinced about one guy mowing 20 acres a day with a ZTR. (Clearly size matters here.) Maybe if there’s nothing to mow around and it’s all wide open space, but if that’s the case, go with a compact tractor and a batwing finish mower.

I’m not trying to be snide here, but sometimes I wonder if guys here know how big an acre is. 40 acres is 1/4 mile square. Certainly (much) larger campuses exist, but is this a 40 acre campus? Or 40 acres of grass? Two very different things. If it’s 40 acres of grass AND buildings, sidewalks, parking lots, trees, landscape etc, ect, then that would be a much larger campus than 1/4 square. Point being if you’re driving all over possibly 50 or 60 acres for more fuel, bathroom, lunch, trimmer string, ect, then keep that in mind. This definitely sounds like a two person full time job to me. All things considered, probably better off hiring it done. It will be cheaper.

 

[MowDaddy]

Amen!

Although I’m not convinced about one guy mowing 20 acres a day with a ZTR. (Clearly size matters here.) Maybe if there’s nothing to mow around and it’s all wide open space, but if that’s the case, go with a compact tractor and a batwing finish mower.

I’m not trying to be snide here, but sometimes I wonder if guys here know how big an acre is. 40 acres is 1/4 mile square. Certainly (much) larger campuses exist, but is this a 40 acre campus? Or 40 acres of grass? Two very different things. If it’s 40 acres of grass AND buildings, sidewalks, parking lots, trees, landscape etc, ect, then that would be a much larger campus than 1/4 square. Point being if you’re driving all over possibly 50 or 60 acres for more fuel, bathroom, lunch, trimmer string, ect, then keep that in mind. This definitely sounds like a two person full time job to me. All things considered, probably better off hiring it done. It will be cheaper.

I mow 20 acres nearly every day. All summer long.

 

[Ridin' Green]

Curious why you say Cheetah over TCII. I have a good relationship with the owner of the Scag dealer and she tells me they only stock Cheetahs because that’s what they could get. Pushed me towards the TC or TT. Definitely only doing 61”. 72” is overkill for these lawns. Glad to hear 31HP is sufficient. I mow my couple hilly acres at home on a Liberty Z with 22HP 48” and it has tons of power and I’m 6’4/250. Thought it hard to believe we’d need more than 30HP for smaller guys than me.

I am shorter than you a little and I find the TC II to be crowded in the cockpit personally, plus a few years back I demo'd a TT II, Cheetah and TC II all on tythe same property and day and the TC II was by far my least favorite of the three. I loved the TT II. It was smooth and comfortable to me, and the Cheetah was not too bad. If you are pulling hills at all, and in thick grass, you will find that these commerical units can use the power. They are heavier than your machine and have much more robust hydros built to last under harsh use, but those require more power to run as well. They are spinning heavier and longer blades with more lift on the sails (usually) which also takes more power.

Good luck with whatever you decide though.

 

[J. Baker]

I mow 20 acres nearly every day. All summer long.

Again, I’m not saying you aren’t being truthful. But I can spend the biggest part of a day working 80 acres with 25’ equipment traveling at speeds that compliment average mowing speeds. (7mph) It would take a large mower, capable of cutting extremely fast and very specific properties to cut that much in a day assuming it isn’t one property. 20 acres is over 15 regulation football fields. You mow 15 football fields a day, by yourself, including loading and moving, blowing off walks and trimming? Or just mowing? Like I said, I’m just highly skeptical. That’s a lot to cover, again assuming moving to different properties is involved.

With a 60” deck traveling at 9mph it would take 3.5 hours to mow 20 acres in a straight line. 60” wide, 33 miles long.

 

[DMT29]

Welcome!

Get a Scag and be glad to have the Vanguard. They are very good engines. Get one of the big efi models to make it easy to handle hills at speed etc.

Thanks for the input. They have a Turf Tiger 31HP Vanguard non-EFI or Cheetah/Tiger Cat 37HP EFIs. Any direction on these? TT feels like a great platform and the old man in me says carbureted engines are simpler but more maintenance.

Cheetah didn’t seem very compelling for the price so basically TT 31HP Vanguard non-EFI vs. Tiger Cat 37HP EFI. Both Vanguards.

Second the Scag and Vanguard combo. Have a TT2 with the 35 Vanguard and it's a lot of mower. Engine is a beast. Zero issues with fall cleanup also. Can't bog the thing down.

I also run a TC2. That being said, I would go TT or Cheetah over the TC. TC is quick and agile but sometimes feels like a "small" mower. Just throwing this out there....the TT2 has a fair bit of grease points (like all Scags), especially with the drive shaft thrown in the mix. Be sure to hit the universals on both ends.

You'll be happy with a Scag.

 

[MowDaddy]

Again, I’m not saying you aren’t being truthful. But I can spend the biggest part of a day working 80 acres with 25’ equipment traveling at speeds that compliment average mowing speeds. (7mph) It would take a large mower, capable of cutting extremely fast and very specific properties to cut that much in a day assuming it isn’t one property. 20 acres is over 15 regulation football fields. You mow 15 football fields a day, by yourself, including loading and moving, blowing off walks and trimming? Or just mowing? Like I said, I’m just highly skeptical. That’s a lot to cover, again assuming moving to different properties is involved.

With a 60” deck traveling at 9mph it would take 3.5 hours to mow 20 acres in a straight line. 60” wide, 33 miles long.

I saddle up on 72" Gravely, top speed 13mph. But as you say, I'd guess my mowing speed average is 8 - 9 mph. All of my workers run 52" Gravely's. They do all the small area's. We mow multiple parks, ballfields, school, large business properties etc. And aprox 15 acres of cemeteries. Every week.
I do all the bulk mowing. I've got ditches 1800 feet long 1st two passes are slower being by Hwy but the next 10 passes are hammer down. Same thing with 7 to 10 acre parks. 1st pass around perimeter along fence line is slow, but then I just start busting out row after row. We mow in sun, rain, even occasional snow. We stop only if it's lightning or serious torrential rains. So yes for me doing 20 acres in 8 hrs is not strange at all. Plus on my machine alone I will typically burn 20 plus gallons of fuel each day. That's why on the (Fuel can thread) I am looking at getting 15 to 30 gallon tanks for each trailer.
When we have gotten behind a time or two I've pushed it to 30 acres in a long day to catch up.
Now that tests my limit.