Discussion in 'Fertilizer Application' started by TPnTX, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. mdlwn1

    mdlwn1 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,443

    For the life of me I can not understand why someone like Smallaxe who claims to know so much cannot understand what you wrote.
  2. TPnTX

    TPnTX LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,775

    you know I find that really strange too. As a matter of fact when I realized what was happening I thought, what? does he think I or someone else thinks that some invisible crust is formed. I'm still shaking my head on that.

    then I try to explain that to him and you know, "I just can't seem to get it off my shoe"
  3. grassman177

    grassman177 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,795

    great conversation here guys, kinda funny as you read all the posts. the soil you penetrate still has toxic herbicide in it, you are just increasing the rate of decomposition of the material when you break it up, therefore achieving your goal of seed establishment after the fact, due to the concentration of the herbicide being greatly reduced due to degradation. give or take a little depending on the herbicide and rate used
  4. TPnTX

    TPnTX LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,775

    yeah but that doesn't sound near as cool as the way Kiril put it. :)
  5. tlg

    tlg LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 651

    This whole thread has really amused me. An argument over terminology. Does it really matter if chemicals applied form a barrier or an invisible force field? Dimension is absorbed by the roots of a germinating seed. The plant or seedling if you will, should never " break through " this "barrier ". This basically means the plant will not emerge through in simple terms. Dimension also acts as a post- emergent. Meaning plants that have germinated will also be killed. Pre or post the seedling must germinate to be killed. Sounds like a barrier to me. At least as far as a pre emergent. A plant that has already emerged really can't " break through " a " barrier ". I believe this is where the invisible force field comes in. Dow chemical really does not want you guy's to have this information but this really needs to come out. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.................:laugh::laugh:

    As far as the problem with the seed job. The chemical is in the soil. The label clearly states how long the chemical is active. Why risk applying more seed when the potential for damage is still there? It seems to me there is only one answer. Just wait.
  6. grassman177

    grassman177 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,795

    i have seeded plenty of times after pre was already put down, just not with barricade. but you can destroy the top layer of soil and seed with little issues so why abandon the idea?!
  7. TPnTX

    TPnTX LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,775

    In the end it is semantics. I'd hardly call it an argument though as if to imply both sides disagreeing with one another.

    The delineation of an invisible barrier is very simple. To the extent he opposed this depiction and clearly had been doing so for some time, I gave gave him the benefit of the doubt only to realize he is only struggling linguisticly.

    You'll have to ask SmallAxe was his perspective is.
  8. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Seed will grow Above the barrier?!!??
    2 many LCOs believe you can.
    2 many LCOs can stir up the suface and disrupt the barrier and overseed with lawngrass.
    In fact that may be one of the reasons that LCOs get such poor germination rates. They blame the seed or the HO, when they fail to realize their are chemical inhibitors in the soil.
    Perhaps the barrier was a good analogy for Scotts but it was a problem for LCOs who got their understanding of - how things work - from a Scott's label.

    Next step is: does pre-m ever become redundant? Is there a better time to pre-m for crabgrass other than - as soon as the ground thaws? Just some more linguistic exercises I'm sure.
    But next spring b4 the grass even greens up there will be many "Professional LCOs" out there with their bags of "Weed 'n Feed", preserving the brown and thin spots, of their clients' lawns so that they can become muddy spots for the client to enjoy All Summer Long... Semantics?!!?? Little or no thought goes into these 4 step programs. "Scott's has it on their label, that's good enough for me." :laugh:
  9. Kane

    Kane LawnSite Member
    Messages: 2

  10. tlg

    tlg LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 651

    I think you would be hard pressed to destroy the " top layer " of soil to the point were the chemical is no longer active. Knowing the chemistry and the mode of action on a pre like Dimension the chemical can only be broken by length of time in the soil, temperature, sunlight, water and microbial activity. If in fact you have seeded lawns after a pre was applied and had success is just lucky IMO. It seems to me that if your told by a manufacturer
    NOT to over-seed for X amount of days there is a reason. If you yourself want to take the risk of your time and money to do it anyway that's great. To lead somebody else to believe it could be done without risk or consequences is not the best advice IMO.

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