Opinions on flow of installs/process. New hire has different opinion

Love the Green Biz

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
NYC Metro Area
i can honestly say I have NEVER used that to install irrigation pipe.
how could you possibly install the lateral deep enough using that method?
Are you installing is pure peat? or possibly marshmallow?
It works like a charm in all moist loam soils-with the heavy model Burkeen put out years ago 10 inches is no issue. You could even have a metal shop make one. With the right moisture works to 6+ inches in clays to sands. Been using the tool more than 35 years and the speed coupled with rapid backfill that leaves almost no marks it can't be beat. The only impediments are large rocks and thick roots.
 

Love the Green Biz

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
NYC Metro Area
We call that a sod spade, used for cutting and taking up sod. I can't imagine digging with a square bladed spade.
You don't dig with it-you pry a deep "V" into the ground, lay your pipe or wire in, backfill using a drain spade to loosen the compacted soils on either side of the "V" and then toe it closed matching the edges of the turf together. A light tamp and you are hard pressed to even see the disturbance. And very fast once you get the hang of it.
 

greendoctor

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
It works like a charm in all moist loam soils-with the heavy model Burkeen put out years ago 10 inches is no issue. You could even have a metal shop make one. With the right moisture works to 6+ inches in clays to sands. Been using the tool more than 35 years and the speed coupled with rapid backfill that leaves almost no marks it can't be beat. The only impediments are large rocks and thick roots.
Roots. Check Rocks. Check. I could imagine prying open a v with that tool in sandy loam with no roots.
 

TPendagast

LawnSite Fanatic
It works like a charm in all moist loam soils-with the heavy model Burkeen put out years ago 10 inches is no issue. You could even have a metal shop make one. With the right moisture works to 6+ inches in clays to sands. Been using the tool more than 35 years and the speed coupled with rapid backfill that leaves almost no marks it can't be beat. The only impediments are large rocks and thick roots.
I have never worked anywhere there hasn’t been roots and large rocks

Where does this unimpeded world of loam
And sandy clay exist down to ten inches?
The flood planes of the Nile?
 

Love the Green Biz

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
NYC Metro Area
Roots. Check Rocks. Check. I could imagine prying open a v with that tool in sandy loam with no roots.
Imagine a whole lot more soil textures, assorted debris and many small roots up to one inch depending on the the type of plant or tree. Since we're been using these tools for decades we come to master them. If you are used to seeing those light duty wire spades I can understand not believing what a real cold rolled steel Burkeen pry bar can do.
 

Love the Green Biz

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
NYC Metro Area
I have never worked anywhere there hasn’t been roots and large rocks

Where does this unimpeded world of loam
And sandy clay exist down to ten inches?
The flood planes of the Nile?

I'll repeat:

Imagine a whole lot more soil textures, assorted debris and many small roots up to one inch depending on the the type of plant or tree. Since we're been using these tools for decades we come to master them. If you are used to seeing those light duty wire spades I can understand not believing what a real cold rolled steel Burkeen pry bar can do.

Hard to believe you've never used this tool. And soils need not be perfect. Moisture is the key.
 

Wet_Boots

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
metro NYC
Roots. Check Rocks. Check. I could imagine prying open a v with that tool in sandy loam with no roots.
Folks here from ancient days might remember the do-it-yourself brochure put out by the Rain Jet sprinkler company. They made a line of compression fittings that worked with 1-inch CTS (copper tubing size) poly pipe, with labeling identifying it as Rain Jet 7/8" poly, which they would have you install by trenching. But in the world of Rain Jet, a trench was accomplished with a flat-bladed square-end garden spade, cutting into the soil at an angle on either side of the pipe path, giving you a V-shaped section of turf and soil that comes out neatly in one piece, to be just as neatly replaced after pipe installation.

I have never worked anywhere there hasn’t been roots and large rocks

Where does this unimpeded world of loam
And sandy clay exist down to ten inches?
The flood planes of the Nile?
I think they call it Suffock County

Moisture is the key.
Too bad consumer interest spikes after the ample soil moisture has gone bye-bye.
 

greenmonster304

LawnSite Platinum Member
Location
You Know
I think they call it Suffock County

It's spelled Suffolk. And for the the most part the soil is pretty sweet unless the jackass landscaper doesn't sub soil after the construction people drove over it for a year. The undisturbed outwash plain along the ocean is like digging in chocolate cake. But there are some pockets of rocky soil. Montauk has some crazy boulders and areas on the north fork too.
 

Love the Green Biz

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
NYC Metro Area
Folks here from ancient days might remember the do-it-yourself brochure put out by the Rain Jet sprinkler company. They made a line of compression fittings that worked with 1-inch CTS (copper tubing size) poly pipe, with labeling identifying it as Rain Jet 7/8" poly, which they would have you install by trenching. But in the world of Rain Jet, a trench was accomplished with a flat-bladed square-end garden spade, cutting into the soil at an angle on either side of the pipe path, giving you a V-shaped section of turf and soil that comes out neatly in one piece, to be just as neatly replaced after pipe installation.

That was the first tool we used for prying "V" trenches open. We used a heavy duty flat steel spade before the pry bars came along. The method was taught to me by a college buddy who I had working the summers with me-he learned it from his prior boss that was a Melnor contractor and distributor.

I have also encountered numerous Rain Jet systems-many piped in copper. Some were piped in poly sizes 5/8-7/8 and 9/8 inches using those same RJ compression fittings with the brass ring. Suckers didn't leak and were easier to use than the worm clamps of the day.

And there are great soils in the northern part of the "Garden State". Many farms here before housing developments came along. Cross the border into Rockland County NY and soil gets real nasty.
 

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