Organic is not taking off...really?

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by lawncuttinfoo, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. lawncuttinfoo

    lawncuttinfoo LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,014

    As of this post there are "101 viewing"
    I remember just a few years ago when cracking 10 viewing was a big night.

    The interesting thing is there are not THAT many more postings which means we have TONS of lurkers, which also means I need to start transitioning my advertising from "organic" to the "first organic provider in town and still the best"

    Good luck newbs! :)
  2. Exact Rototilling

    Exact Rototilling LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,378

    100% organic sounds expensive. I buy organic food but I'm pushing herbicide spot spray this year. Doubt I will ever rig up for blanket APS.

    My thoughts are less herbicides through spot spraying only vs the surround and drown blanket applicators. Use of bridge fert products with minimal herbicide use.

    Less bad is the new good. kmow microwave ovens.destroy nutrients in food.but we still.use.them.for convenience.
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  3. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Organic Products may be expensive,,, but you don't need to replace N on a pound for pound basis...
    Spot spraying is definately a Smart Sales Gimmick for reduced Pesticide use, which will appeal to the eco-movement in the popular media...
    Promote the concept of Mature turf and END the use of root inhibitors for CG killing and establish deep roots instead...
    Building Soil Structure is at the heart of making this INEXPENSIVE organic program work...

    But,,, there's no money in INEXPENSIVE... :)

    Follow the dollar and you'll see where your Organic and Green ideas originate and continue to be propagated from... organics is all about money, and that is why it will never go in the right direction...
  4. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,165

    Making a blanket statement like that is ridiculous.

    I guarantee you that I would make more money in supplying traditional fertilizers and pesticides than I do with the products we handle now.
  5. Exact Rototilling

    Exact Rototilling LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,378

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  6. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    I agree with you 100%... there is no question that by sheer volume alone you would be turning money all the time... its called the "Demand Side" of a business... getting a bigger bang for your buck is popular and creates Demand...

    The inexpensive nature of the products supplied constitutes a discount in a large supply and availability which favors the synfert market on the "Supply Side" as well...

    But that is not what I was talking about as an LCO... My least expensive lawns as far as charging clients, are also among the best of my lawns and most durable... they are 'mostly' organic but I'm still working on the color that synferts bring to the grass...

    I can make more money doing unnecessary and counter-productive apps as "The Big Boys" do, but I prefer making higher wages for fewer and highly productive apps...
    That is my economy of not matching product for product and pound of N for pound of N...

    So in one sense we totally agree and in another sense you're equating synfert to orgfert... and I reject that idea as a non-starter.... :)
  7. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,165

    I don't think we agree at all. This is what you were talking about, Follow the dollar and you'll see where your Organic and Green ideas originate and continue to be propagated from... organics is all about money, and that is why it will never go in the right direction...

    This insinuates that all those who are selling or using "organic" products are either ripping off LCO's or the LCO's are ripping off their clients because the only possible reason to use these products is to make more money.

    I speak with landscapers & LCOs everyday who are looking for ways to reduce the amount of pesticides and conventional fertilizers for many reasons; such as to get good results, reduce exposure due to health and environmental concerns, to save money, and to gain an edge on their competitors.

    Blanket statements such as the one you made does a disservice to many hard working, honest individuals and companies. If what you really meant to say was that there are some unscrupulous individuals and companies taking advantage of
    a new market, then say that.

    Back to your point; if I made the choice to run my business based only on the profit I'm making, there are much better choices.
  8. Exact Rototilling

    Exact Rototilling LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,378

    Smallaxe, Roughly what % of synthetic fert do you use compared to 100% organics?

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  9. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Well I spot spray, which is 100% synthetic... No Pre-M in grass at all, only over-seeding with compost... 100% organic there...

    my Spring fert apps will be Milorganite, except for the large areas which are not worth the additional cost... so maybe 80% organic and will duplicate at the end of Summer(80%)...

    But only if the Milorganite N is being released in a timely fashion... Dry Springs before the irrigation is turned on, may have the Milorganite just sitting there so I might add 1/2# of urea the following month... I'm a full maintenance operator so I can do things like that with my lawns... it has got to be hard for squirt&fert to rely on Milorganite w/out putting down 4 apps a season, just to be sure...

    for the last winterizer app I have to decide whether the grass looks good or not... if the Milorganite doesn't deliver the amount of N needed I'll go with a cheap urea, that is "utilized" by the plants before the ground freezes... the winterizer is typically urea, becuz the as the ground cools off the organic N becomes less available...

    My ONLY best cure for trouble areas is compost... I do not know of any "Product" that will out perform compost to make a trouble spot flourish... both physically and nutritionally...
  10. Ecoscapes

    Ecoscapes LawnSite Member
    Messages: 76

    I'm thinking of offering an organic lawn service, I've thought about it for the last few years but have remained in hardscaping. So now I've figured out I just need to start a whole new maintenance biz and build it up over the next few years.

    I think its insane to spray chemicals on lawns, I'm no hippie treehugger but I draw the line with spraying chemicals all over the commuunity just so people can have green lawns. Seems like longterm organic would be cheaper; as the soil gets built up there'd be less of a need for extra care, healthy soil, healthy lawn. Chemicals are like a surface treatment, like steroids for lawns, not really building up the soil but just artificially turning the lawn green, the lawn gets addicted and reapplication is ongoing, and the chem co's love that!

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