Organic lawn care

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by lostkraft, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,123

    You just keep spreading misinformation which is a different form of crap. :nono:
  2. lawncuttinfoo

    lawncuttinfoo LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,010

    I always laugh when I hear this. When you correctly analyze the actual ISU data this is not the ideal rate.

    A long time ago my wife complied all ISU's data for a college paper (not easy I might add, it's not centralized or even organized) and correctly plotted it. We used this info to determine our rates which work unbelievably great.
    The best part was when she called and spoke with Nick who said, "wow that is really nice we should do that"

    No I'm not saying Skip is right or even defending him, just a tangent.
  3. Skipster

    Skipster LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,076

    You obviously haven't read the research. Iowa State's research shows that 20# CGM/M to be no different from their untreated control plots in regards to crabgrass control. ISU's work has consistently shown that 60-80# CGM/M is needed to acheive 50% crbagrass control. At 10%N, you're looking at 6-8#N/M just to get 50% crabgrass control.

    Read the research before you post.
  4. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    I try to stay away from these bickerings, but I had to insert a comment about ISU continuing to research with CGM when 60 pounds per k STILL only gives 50% control...
    I never saw a gov't funded lost cause... as long as gov't money keeps being thrown at it, it's not lost ,,, it will live...

    The CGM has never been anything other than propaganda and any lawn that requires Pre-M of any kind,,, after 3-5 years needs new management...
    Aeration should no longer be required after 3-5 years of good management therefore there are no new seeds coming to the surface, and any seeds that will germinate in that soil layer has already germinated by then...

    My comic relief is over now,,,so continue your bashing one another and I'll ignore the rest of this thread as usual... :)
  5. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    The recommended rate is directly out of the papers published by Nick Christians.


    Rates will vary depending on crop and target weed. I generally recommend 20
    lbs product per 1000 ft2.
    This provides about 2 lbs of nitrogen per 1000 ft2. Some
    crops that are grown in rows can be treated in bands in the row and weeds can
    be tilled between rows. This makes it more economical to use in crop production.
    Test the material at rates from 10lbs/1000 ft2 in 10 pound increments to as high
    as 80 lbs/1000 ft2.

    He quite clearly states rates may vary, however the recommended rate is still 20 lbs/1000. Problem is, most people that use it don't understand how to use it effectively.
  6. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    Clearly you are speaking about yourself again.

    At 20.28 lbs/1000 (99 g/m^2) level of control was 58% in 1991.

    Further from the same paper:

    Although nearly complete control of crabgrass in Kentucky bluegrass turf is
    possible with corn gluten meal, the application levels required are excessive. A level of
    99 g m -2 (2 Ibs. N 1000 ft-2), which can provide 58% reduction in crabgrass
    establishment, would be practical in the spring application and is the suggested
    application level for crabgrass control with this material.

    Indeed you should.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  7. dKoester

    dKoester LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,329

    This should go down in the hall of shame.
  8. lawncuttinfoo

    lawncuttinfoo LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,010

    Kiril, the first link you posted is not a peer reviewed research paper. It is an opinion on the results of that research. Additionally it was written someone selling an idea to companies who want an easy application rate, this can not be discounted.

    The second link you posted is actual research, however it is old and does not plot EVERY study and compare it all.

    Yes humanity would not get anywhere without standing on the shoulders of their forefathers, however it is sometimes necessary to doubt and reanalyze their findings ourselves. In this case with different and better results.
    Translation, don't be lazy, plot it all out yourself and you will see what I mean. :)
  9. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    It is the opinion of the man credited for the discovery. If you have problem with his recommendation, then take it up with him. BTW, that 20 lb recommendation is seen in numerous publications by Christians.

    How many studies are there with respect to crabgrass control? Further, what relevance does one studies numbers have with another studies numbers? I'll help you with that ..... NONE. You can't just collect numbers from various studies and plot them against each other.

    What exactly are you getting at? I don't need to plot something to understand what the numbers are telling me. Beyond that, on several occasions I have posted an extensive list of links to papers and articles on the subject of CGM. I'll post them again in the event you missed them.

    Studies/Articles On Corn Gluten As A Pre-emergent

    PATENT: Updated patent

    ISU: Greenhouse Screening of Corn Gluten Meal as a Natural Control Product for Broadleaf and Grass Weeds

    ISU: Isolation and Identification of Root-Inhibiting Compounds from Corn. Gluten Hydrolysate

    ISU: Making its way to the marketplace: A natural product for the control of annual weeds

    ISU: Bioactivity of a Pentapeptide Isolated from Corn Gluten Hydrolysate on Lolium perenne L.

    ISU: Herbicidal Activity of Hydrolyzed Corn Gluten Meal on Three Grass Species under Controlled Environments

    ISU: The Use Of A Natural Product For The Control Of Annual Weeds In Turf

    ISU: A natural product for the control of annual weeds (Note: more or less same as previous link)

    ISU: The Use of Corn Gluten Meal As A Natural Preemergence Weed Control in Turf

    ISU: How To Use Corn Gluten Meal

    ISU: Cellular effects in perennial ryegrass (Lolium perenne L.) associated. with the root inhibiting compound alaninyl-alanine

    UCD: Evaluation and Demonstration of Corn Gluten Meal as an Organic Herbicide

    UWEX: Corn Gluten Meal: A Natural Pre-Emergence Herbicide

    Studies/Articles On Natural Products & Methods For Weed Control

    UWEX: Corn Gluten Meal and Other Natural Products for Weed Control in Turfgrass

    UFL: Preliminary Evaluation Of Nonsynthetic Herbicides For Weed Management In Organic Orange Production

    JA-CSSPA: Weed Suppression by Deleterious Rhizobacteria is Affected by Formulation and Soil Properties

    JA-CS: Cultural Management of Weeds in Turfgrass: A Review

    PATENT: Xanthomonas campestris isolates and methods of use
  10. goodgreen

    goodgreen LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    Find an Amsoil dealer near you and ask them for Aggrand Organic Lawn and Garden fertilizer. It's mixed in a sprayer backpack and does a wonderful job.

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