Organica 4 Step Lawn Care Program

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by 4-Seasons, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. WannaBeOrganic

    WannaBeOrganic LawnSite Member
    Messages: 90

    Kiril, you act as if I never heard of compost and don't understand what it does. I do, I plan on topdressing with compost but that's not going to stop me from fertilizing my lawn and I have no intention of topdressing more than once a year or maybe even every year.

    From what a few people have said, you seem to just like to argue by cherry picking what someone says and completely ignoring what you don't want to hear.

    I also can't reconcile how you trash some of the organica products but were begging for a sample of an ICT Organics product in another thread. It seems like he's your boy cause he posts here and is a sponsor of the forum. That's fine but it makes you appear disingenuous and I can't take you seriously.
  2. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    Dude, WTF is wrong with you? Why do you continue this stooopid argument? Guess what, you CAN use compost to meet a plants fertility needs.

    Also ............

    1) I trashed their product? Best you can do is where I said they made fantastical claims, and they do! I believe my original comment in this thread was:

    Yup, sure am bashing the product there. :hammerhead: Suggest an alternative, get bashed for it and accused of all kinds of things.

    2) I never "begged" for any ICT product. I may have suggested Bill send me a gallon for field testing in jest, but never begged for anything. Bill is not my boy, I don't recommend CT for most all resi/comm landscaping, bottled or otherwise, (now stated for the 100th or more time), and he is a paying sponsor of this site. Furthermore, it got an endorsement from TG, so I have no reason to bash it.

    I also don't rag on Barry's products either. Want to know why? Because he also doesn't try to ram products down our throats and freely admits compost is the preferred solution.

    3) A "few" people. You mean like Marcos who incorrectly thinks I am a liberal whack job so he finds it necessary to spew his hate in my direction? Guess it is better he spew it here rather than onto his kids. Perhaps Ted, who likes to throw around one line "witty" insults at people he also considers liberal and never has anything useful to say. Or perhaps Ric, Rod and posse (including Ted), who also take issue with people based on some perceived political line. Or perhaps you as well, who appears to also want to stick me into some political category. Witness how quickly you jumped on the Marcos bashing band wagon.

    I suggest you build your SOM with compost ..... end of story! Beyond that, I don't give a rats ass what you think about me or do with your lawn.
  3. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Fanatic
    from zone 6
    Messages: 5,736

    Keep swinging for that might hit a home run.
  4. WannaBeOrganic

    WannaBeOrganic LawnSite Member
    Messages: 90

    Why do you? It's not like I'm constantly posting on this thread replying to myself.

    A university researcher with a PhD who has been researching compost for 20 years came to the conclusion that using compost and fertilizer together is best for crops so I'm going to stick with that until I decide otherwise, especially since I've seen so many good examples of people using just grains. Until someone does a long term study on just lawns, I'll infer what I can from the vegetable study.

    Grains, kelp, microbes and kelp. Why is it so important to you what I use? If I'm throwing away money that's my problem not yours. Do you live on a diet of corn and seaweed and you're upset that people like me that are throwing food onto our lawns are raising your shopping bill?

    What's your problem? I learned a bit about the products so I decided to correct an error I saw and share what I knew. I didn't expect it to turn into this. I never told anyone to buy Organica products, I never told anyone not to use compost.

    Until I came into this thread there was little information about the products. One person saying they used and liked them, another person posting spam for the stuff they sell, then two pages of you and Marcos bickering like children about compost. This thread was about someone asking about the organica products, if you don't want to learn about them don't read it.

    You guys don't want to try them don't. I don't work for or with them. They fold up tomorrow all it means is I need to find some other products to spread.

    We're almost at 175 posts a whole lot of them from you. That's one big rat's ass in my book.
  5. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,669

  6. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    BullShiit! The ONLY time I rake people over the coals is when they come after me, much like this thread, or they post a bunch of inaccurate crap and are an azzhole to everyone who they think doesn't come down on their side of the political line. Am I wrong? Read ANY thread where I have been attacked by Ric or Rod or Marcos, or anyone. What ALWAYS comes up .... Yup you guessed it ..... politics. What is their major issue with me or anyone else who uses organics .... yup you guessed it .... politics. Always the f'n childish politics.

    This is especially true when they post inaccurate information to prove their point, once again, much like this thread, and resort to personal attacks bordering on slander because they can't admit they were wrong.

    So you want to know what chaps my ass Ted .... people who think they know more then they do, and then attempt to defend their ignorant statements with more ignorant statements, ridicule and personal attacks. And then there are those people who like to make assumptions about a persons knowledge and experience ... aren't those people special. When I "rake someone over the coals" they asked for it 100% of the time.

    Let's take WBO for instance. I used his own single piece of "evidence", not even peer reviewed, to show his statements are wrong, and I only did so after he came after me. Yet what does he do? He continues to argue an invalid point because he chooses to interpret the entire bulletin based on yield being a little higher with ferts and compost. He completely missed the entire thrust of the bulletin (as shown), which was to demonstrate the value of compost and how it can be used to reduce and in some cases eliminate the need for chem ferts when growing high production vegetables. I mean really Ted, there is another thread of people showing their spectacular gardens using nothing more than compost, and yet he STILL argues that compost is not enough. He is just another yahoo who is not man enough to admit when he is wrong.

    So I invite you to read through this thread again. Marcos and WBO have dragged this thread out, essentially doing nothing more than attack me, and for what? A simple statement saying soils are not easy to rebuild, suck it up and spread some compost. Really Ted, this is your idea of being intolerant? Yet YOU and others always take issue when I defend myself ... how big of you. Guess what Ted, compost works, and works well.

    And fanatic. How many f'n times do I have to tell you yahoos I support using bridge programs. In fact, I am about to recommend to Ray his best bet to get where he wants to be is using a bridge program, especially when dealing with mushroom compost. As usual, you people only read what you want to see and believe what you want to believe.

    Once again, another yahoo speculating on my experience and casting judgment on a person he knows nothing about.

    So Ted, tell me how much experience do you have building sustainable systems or working with compost? How about you WBO?

    What puts YOU or anyone else on this forum in the position to sit in judgment over what experience I have or how I conduct my daily routine? Guess what Ted, I'm in the office half of the day, and in and out the rest of the day. So please tell me why I have to justify my schedule to you or Marcos? Why do you or anyone else care how many posts I have made here? Don't visit the irrigation forum/chat room much do you? How many posts am I allowed to make here per day Ted? Want me to demonstrate how to run up the post count again?

    You know what they say about opinions Ted .... and yours are worth nothing,
  7. unit28

    unit28 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,554

    Circus animal manure can be used on most gardens and incorporated into compost piles, where allowed by law.
    An elephant will produce approximately 164,250 pounds of waste per year. The manure is similar in texture to horse manure and is classified as a "hot" type, meaning manure has the ability to burn plants if used in a fresh state.

    Lion manure has a strong odor. Production can be 4,562 pounds per year. Lion manure is considered "cold" and should not have a burning effect. "Big Cat" manures, including tiger and panther, may have some effect in keeping animals out of the garden. However, make sure the animals have not been fed meat products.

    Giraffe manure is "hot" and produced at the rate of 18,250 pounds per year. The texture is closer to sheep manure.
  8. NattyLawn

    NattyLawn LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,643


    Leave it go man....Guys like Marcos, Ted, and the "homeowner" aren't worth your time.

    What's funny is that there was that 80 page thread about organics, farming etc, and now some of those same guys (Ray and Rod) are now inquiring about organics and organic based products.
  9. growingdeeprootsorganicly

    growingdeeprootsorganicly LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 766

    kiril the compost nazi, lol, guess there's worst things to be called...:laugh:
  10. WannaBeOrganic

    WannaBeOrganic LawnSite Member
    Messages: 90

    I thought I'd let this drop and then you go around bugging me on other threads and you start calling people names. I should just ignore your childishness but you've really irked me.

    That was a bulletin summarizing a collection of studies. If you do a publication search for the titles of the individual studies you'll see at least some of them have been published in peer review journals. I say some because I only checked a couple and found the journals they were published in. The only "peers" reviewing your rants seem to your friends here. Dishboy who claimed to have never used compost on his lawn in another thread, only organic fertilizers and growrootsorganically who described pretty much the same position I have on organic lawn care in another thread. Thankfully though, I don't think anyone here could really be considered your "peer". If it wasn't for your caustic behavior maybe I could have learned a bit from them and crazy as it may sounds, maybe them from me.

    Now lets look at what the bulletin said word for word in the summary with emphasis added:

    Maybe I'm a freak. I don't want to just have grass to keep the soil from blowing or washing away. If that's all I cared about I wouldn't add anything. For years I never added any fertilizer or compost and always had a lawn. I saw the results of some people and I know with a little bit of work I can have a great lawn.

    I want a lawn that stands out from the neighbors. I want a lawn so green mothers tell their children to cross the street because they think my lawn is toxic. I want a lawn so dark people get into car accidents because they are so distracted by it. I want dirty hippies to to have a sit in on my sidewalk to protest my use of toxic petroleum based fertilizers so I can shoo 'em away with a hose and hurl bags of corn meal at them. I want a lawn so nice I have to install security cameras to catch the local squirt and fert guys that try and kill it in the middle of the night. I want a lawn so thick and lush female joggers can't help but strip naked and roll around in it and giggle because I've found that there's no better way to wake up in the morning than to the sound of the giggling of naked chics.

    And I'm looking at everything I need to do to get there starting from pouring over data on specific genetically engineered grass seeds that will give me the qualities I desire, materials to improve and feed the soil as well as ways to prevent and treat problems. And I want to do it all without using any synthetic products. As long as I don't put anything harmful in my immediate vicinity I don't care if causes the complete deforestation of an entire region or starvation in a.... Woah.. Getting a bit carried away there. :) I think a lot of people know where I'm coming from.

    I was going to let this one slide but I seem to have given you too much credit when I implied you were an academic and possibly an associate professor. What does essentially two B.S. degrees mean? You either have two degrees or you don't. Not one accredited university gives out essentially degrees. If you completed the required curriculum to get the degrees you'd have them. Sounds like you just take classes here and there as a hobby.

    There's also a vast difference between undergrad and post graduate study. Until you get into post graduate work you're not really working hands-on on any new research, you're just studying what's already been done. In undergrad course work you might be part of an experiment as a lacky to do grunt work which is also what a lot of post grads wind up doing until they start working towards their PhDs.

    For some reason this forum tolerates you but I suspect you're part of the reason why this is one of the worst places to find information about organic lawn care and it didn't have to be that way. In fact, it should be the opposite. All I see whenever I come here looks like spam from the people that pay enough and are allowed to do so. It's so bad that there are numerous times I've seen someone ask a question and the response is nothing more than a canned "click the link in my sig".

    I had no intention of belittling you but don't put your opinions on the same level as people that focus years of their lives in the thoughtful study and understanding of the things us normal folk get to read about and play with. And don't try and tell me what I just read and what it means. I've read many papers in different journals in different fields.

    Anyone else with a different perspective gets criticized and accused of being a rep.

    The rest of the site is great and I've found some invaluable information on equipment and techniques. Most of the time just drooling because I don't really have the space or can justify a lot of it. Helps me find the right stuff to rent though.

    Since I took the time to create an account and some of you seem to know what you're talking about and have real experience directly involved in organic lawn care I thought I'd poke around and read and give some information where I thought I could. Only to be met by people that wanted to continue this crap throughout the site. It's clear that some people want to make everyone know that they're the biggest fish in the pond. Unfortunately that's just going to keep this a pretty small pond.

    For people that seemed nice enough I sent some PM's with info that seemed to be useful. So I'll probably try and see if I can get this thread up to 200 (maybe I'll email the thread to Organica and see if they'll give $10 for every time Kiril popped a vein) but I know where I'm not wanted and it doesn't hurt my feelings. It's been a very unique and fun experience.

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