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What if you hire someone like me? I'm not going to rush around for a few bucks.
Then what? You lose.
(and if the base pay is so low that it gives me incentive to rush around (like a waiter/waitress), I'd just work elsewhere from the start)
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
What if you hire someone like me? I'm not going to rush around for a few bucks.
Then what? You lose.
(and if the base pay is so low that it gives me incentive to rush around (like a waiter/waitress), I'd just work elsewhere from the start)
It gives you control.

I'm going to give you a $1,000 worth of jobs to complete by yourself on Tuesday. You can complete these jobs in 16 hours or you can get them done in 7 hours. Your choice, I don't care as long as the jobs get done.

You can go home and tell you're wife you earned $12/hr working that day, or you can go home and tell her you earned $28/hr that day. It doesn't matter to me since the work is all done and the clients are happy.

I'm happy I made my $800 as the employer, and you are happy you made your $200 as P4P technician. See you Wednesday to do it all over again. Maybe you'll want to pick up the speed and get it done faster... or maybe you'll want to stop at every gas station you see for a Hot Dog and a Pepsi. I don't care.
 

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I like the idea of trying to evolve and adapt to "the way things are" right now. While it probably wouldn't be my cup of tea at this juncture in my life, one of the biggest hangups I kept coming back to while reading through this thread is: you still need a quality worker to make this fly. It all hinges on "getting a good employee" from the get go. Then, he'd have to be trained. He'd have to stick around too, because if you're training someone every couple of weeks or months, that kind of blows things up (although you might be doing that anyway, so.....). And if he's no good, just replace him? With who? Seems like the biggest issue these days (other than prices and product availability) is finding good employees. It's not like you can shake a bush and another quality employee falls out. If this incentivises someone to bust it for $200/day, 5 days a week, awesome. A two week paycheck minus taxes is what - $1500 +/-?? Honestly, I don't think it's a terrible idea at all. I just don't know how you get around the quality worker issue. And if you CAN get around that issue, why not keep it more traditional with excellent pay? Those are just questions that bounce around in my empty head.

Are you going to have a go at it? Super curious to see how it works out. Keep us posted!!
 

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Sounds like a franchise type business.
With you running the headquarters.

There is a snow plowing company.
Advertising for snow plowing. Then subs the work out. By location.

I can see the benefits to something like this. With group coverage health care.
As a member.
 

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I like the idea of trying to evolve and adapt to "the way things are" right now. While it probably wouldn't be my cup of tea at this juncture in my life, one of the biggest hangups I kept coming back to while reading through this thread is: you still need a quality worker to make this fly. It all hinges on "getting a good employee" from the get go. Then, he'd have to be trained. He'd have to stick around too, because if you're training someone every couple of weeks or months, that kind of blows things up (although you might be doing that anyway, so.....). And if he's no good, just replace him? With who? Seems like the biggest issue these days (other than prices and product availability) is finding good employees. It's not like you can shake a bush and another quality employee falls out. If this incentivises someone to bust it for $200/day, 5 days a week, awesome. A two week paycheck minus taxes is what - $1500 +/-?? Honestly, I don't think it's a terrible idea at all. I just don't know how you get around the quality worker issue. And if you CAN get around that issue, why not keep it more traditional with excellent pay? Those are just questions that bounce around in my empty head.

Are you going to have a go at it? Super curious to see how it works out. Keep us posted!!
P4P has a quality control system.

There is an audiobook on audible.

 

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It gives you control.

I'm going to give you a $1,000 worth of jobs to complete by yourself on Tuesday. You can complete these jobs in 16 hours or you can get them done in 7 hours. Your choice, I don't care as long as the jobs get done.

You can go home and tell you're wife you earned $12/hr working that day, or you can go home and tell her you earned $28/hr that day. It doesn't matter to me since the work is all done and the clients are happy.

I'm happy I made my $800 as the employer, and you are happy you made your $200 as P4P technician. See you Wednesday to do it all over again. Maybe you'll want to pick up the speed and get it done faster... or maybe you'll want to stop at every gas station you see for a Hot Dog and a Pepsi. I don't care.
I know contractors that already do this because they already calculated the man hours needs to complete the job and their profit margin. If guys finish up sooner they can go home with pay. Their employer doesn’t try to move them to another job, drag out the day with menial tasks, or punish them for efficiency by only paying them for hours worked. They are not 1099, and they make typical wages. I guess the difference is they don’t really make more money, but they do get more personal time which is a perk for a lot of people.
 

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I just came across a help wanted online ad seeking employees from a Mike Andes franchisee using this system. They are based in Knoxville, TN. The starting pay is $16.00/hr. and the average rate after the p4p is applied is $18-$22 per hour. Nothing spectacular there. Making $30/hr is most likely pie in the sky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
I just came across a help wanted online ad seeking employees from a Mike Andes franchisee using this system. They are based in Knoxville, TN. The starting pay is $16.00/hr. and the average rate after the p4p is applied is $18-$22 per hour. Nothing spectacular there. Making $30/hr is most likely pie in the sky.
$30/hr could very well be pie in the sky. In one of Mike Andes's videos he records 2 guys mowing a property. He posted at the end of video how many sqft, time estimated, and what he billed for that property (under priced @ $60).

He estimated that particular property should take 45 minutes, but his 2 guys completed it in 20 minutes. I can link the video if you need clarification.

-- That property is the perfect example of the type I avoid. My yards are 12 minute yards for a solo operator, and the route density is in the same subdivision or in the same neighborhood, basically under an umbrella. I estimate we have an entire 20 minutes windshield time per day including to-and-from shop.

That being said, our performance bonus should come out to $10 to $12 per yard (if I offer industry 30%). If it takes a solo guy 15 minutes (though my 45 yr old ass can do it in 12 minutes), that gives him 15 minutes per hour to catch a breath.

So if P4P tech can produce 3 yards per hour, that's $30 to $36 per hour. That might be a pie in the sky and looks good on paper.... but if I can do it, why couldn't they do it?

I think Mike Andes has more overhead and can't pay a better performance rate. I think he's an office guy whereas I'm a hands on guy and I excel at cutting costs and specialize in efficiency. That might be why I would never accept the low efficient properties he bids on.
 

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$30/hr could very well be pie in the sky. In one of Mike Andes's videos he records 2 guys mowing a property. He posted at the end of video how many sqft, time estimated, and what he billed for that property (under priced @ $60).

He estimated that particular property should take 45 minutes, but his 2 guys completed it in 20 minutes. I can link the video if you need clarification.

-- That property is the perfect example of the type I avoid. My yards are 12 minute yards for a solo operator, and the route density is in the same subdivision or in the same neighborhood, basically under an umbrella. I estimate we have an entire 20 minutes windshield time per day including to-and-from shop.

That being said, our performance bonus should come out to $10 to $12 per yard (if I offer industry 30%). If it takes a solo guy 15 minutes (though my 45 yr old ass can do it in 12 minutes), that gives him 15 minutes per hour to catch a breath.

So if P4P tech can produce 3 yards per hour, that's $30 to $36 per hour. That might be a pie in the sky and looks good on paper.... but if I can do it, why couldn't they do it?

I think Mike Andes has more overhead and can't pay a better performance rate. I think he's an office guy whereas I'm a hands on guy and I excel at cutting costs and specialize in efficiency. That might be why I would never accept the low efficient properties he bids on.
Are you in a area where the pavement is not trimmed / edged.
I'm asking that. That properties that size. I would be in a trailer park.

& The guy in this video. You speak of.
Billed a customer 60.00 on a property that was completed in 40 minutes.
How is that bad money.
Cause.
I have a stop that consists of 4 properties. That comes out at $149.00 weekly. Average time in -out 80 minutes solo.
 

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P4P can work for both parties, under the right conditions. Years back, over 10 I had 2 different employees. Sometimes they would mow with me and sometimes by themselves. Either way I would pay them per yard. I kept time (and still do) on every yard so I knew how much time it should take. They liked the fact the more efficient they were the better they were rewarded. I liked the fact my truck and equipment wasn't out there any longer than it had to be. So winner winner.

Here's the way I looked at it. I'm only going to get paid a set amount to mow a yard, let's say $50. If I'm paying someone by the hour and he takes 2 hours @ $10 an hour that's $20 in wages. If he understands he can get $15 and complete the yard in 45 minutes he's happy to do that. Understand it's not unusual to be 100+ degrees where I am in the summer.

Now I'll add there was an employee before these that this didn't work out. Let's just say he was a sorry SOB.

This can work with the right person(s) if they're self motivated. Trying this with a large number of employees, eh. Maybe if you had a good formula set up?

Perhaps part of my mindset behind this was when I was young and worked for a large company I'm pretty sure I was an above average productive person. So more and more work was piled on me and eventually it got to the point I couldn't perform all the work in the given time frame and then I was accused of being incompetent. Eventually I had to learn how to play the game and looking back it really broke my spirit for awhile. When I went in business on my own I was able to rekindle my work spirit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
TN TURF


"I'm happy I made my $800 as the employer, and you are happy you made your $200 as P4P technician."

So you get the Carrot and the Tech gets the stick?
You would be pissed off earning $28.50/hr when the industry only pays $16.00... because the owner who built a prosperous and efficient system made too much?

Go work for the $16/hr guy then. Maybe you know what your true worth is and are honest about it.
 
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