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Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by Smallaxe, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,308


    If N fertilization can have a negative effect on soil C sequestration, the same trend observed for the Morrow Plots should be readily evident from data collected in field studies elsewhere. Such evidence is common in the scientific literature but has seldom been acknowledged, perhaps because N fertilizer practices have been predicated largely on short-term economic gain rather than long-term sustainability. Within the USA Corn Belt, fertilizer N has often been found to increase biomass production while being of little benefit to soil C sequestration, according to studies conducted with various tillage systems in Indiana (Barber, 1979), Iowa (Russell et al., 2005), Kansas (Dodge and Jones, 1948), Kentucky (Blevins et al., 1983), Michigan (Vitosh et al., 1997), Minnesota (Reicosky et al., 2002), Missouri (Smith, 1942), Nebraska (Lesoing and Doran, 1997), North Dakota (Black and Tanaka, 1997), South Dakota (Pikul et al., 2001), and Wisconsin (Motavalli et al., 1992). The same trend has been documented more widely not only for corn (Gusser, 1970; Bloom et al., 1982; Huggins and Fuchs, 1997; Peters et al., 1997; Vanotti et al., 1997; Liang et al., 1998; Clapp et al., 2000; Brye et al., 2002; Wilts et al., 2004) but also for wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) (Dyer, 1902; White, 1927; Rasmussen et al., 1980; Campbell et al., 1991; Jenkinson, 1991; Campbell and Zentner, 1993, 1997; Rasmussen and Parton, 1994; Dalal et al., 1995; Nyborg et al., 1995; Rasmussen and Smiley, 1997; Potter et al., 1998; Izaurralde et al., 2001; Halvorson et al., 2002; Follett et al., 2005; Machado et al., 2006), barley (Hordeum vulgare L.) (Jenkinson and Johnston, 1977; Johnston, 1997; Machado et al., 2006), rice (Oryza sativa L.) (Lal, 1986), cotton (Gossypium hirsutum L.) (Cope et al., 1958; Sainju et al., 2005), various mixed cropping systems (Draycott et al., 1978; Christensen and Johnston, 1997; Potter et al., 1998; Sainju et al., 2002, 2006), and pine plantations (Harding and Jokela, 1994; Leggett and Kelting, 2006).

    No way to reasonably extrapolate Quack?
  2. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,728

    I forgot I wrote one of those papers.
  3. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    No actually, you should respond with kindness and respect and apologize

    it is ignorance on your part that allows you to have that opinion, sorry but it is true
    no one hates you or thinks that you are a bad dude or dudette, just your level of ignorance to entry level people on here is a silly

    they are not ignorant because they have no background .....DUUUHHHH they are just trying to learn and ask questions

    either be positive or not, I choose positive
  4. starry night

    starry night LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,009

    Wait a minute. Quackgrass is an entry-level person?
  5. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,728

    All jokes aside, I think you see Bill's point.
  6. starry night

    starry night LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,009

    Well, yes and no. Each has an acid tongue for the other. I'm not surprised by anything they say to each other. On the other hand, each speaks reasonably to "entry-level" posters, IMO.
  7. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    From the article of Post #21:

    "...Within the USA Corn Belt, fertilizer N has often been found to increase biomass production while being of little benefit to soil C sequestration, according to studies conducted with various tillage systems in Indiana..."

    Biomass increase is a good thing... "C sequestration" is something different... Soil C relates to Humates eventually, correct? (bash the ignorant guy... now!)

    The real point is: N increases biomass, even in a cornfield... :)
  8. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,308

    WOW! You mean I should respond with the kindness and respect that quack treats me with? Do you also mean that people should make inappropriate comments on a paper they didn't even read?

    There is nothing wrong with my posts in this thread. Quack started talking crap along with his usual insinuating bullshiit for no good reason. Did you read the thread, or like Barry, are you just choosing to single me out with your criticism on my forum etiquette? Beyond that, his post was all kinds of ignorant .... and insulting. Why is it you don't have a problem with that Bill? IMO, you are way out of line here. If you feel the need to reprimand people for their forum etiquette, either you treat everyone equally or don't post.

    FYI, quack has never treated me with respect from day 1, yet I don't see you or Barry reprimanding him for his posts that are nothing more than personal attacks. Why is that Bill? Is it because he is a customer?

    Furthermore, quack is hardly "entry level". He knows enough and speaks intelligently enough for people to listen .... so it is all the more important that his information be accurate. If he doesn't care enough to make sure his information is accurate, then why should he or anyone else complain when that information gets corrected?

    That said .... quack didn't ask a question, nor did he express an opinion, he presented a statement as fact. I didn't correct the statement, I just presented a peer reviewed journal article that showed differently. Instead of reading the paper and discussing the results and it's applicability to this industry like a professional and mature adult, quack instead choose to NOT read the publication and make absurd statements in an attempt to discredit it.

    Now tell me Bill, is this the how professionals in this industry should conduct themselves on this forum, or any public forum?

    Can I assume that you also do not see the relevance of a study looking at organic matter + synthetic N and the related impacts on SOC in a system?

    Can I also assume you also do not understand how one can compare different types of monocots with respect to organic matter quality and rooting behavior ... especially those in family Poaceae, which are classified as true grasses? Just in the event you weren't aware of this ... both corn and turf grass are members of Family Poaceae.

    IMO, I think quack, barry and now you owe me an apology.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  9. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,308

    Axe ....biomass in this statement is predominately above ground plant biomass.

    SOC is any organic carbon in the soil.
  10. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    How do avatars have egos??? Smallaxe doesn't exist... Smallaxe could care less how other avatars feel... I learn something when my avatar gets real information out of other avatars...

    Diss this, Clown... :drinkup:

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