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Permagreen ride-on + no leaf coverage (label)

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by americanlawn, May 23, 2006.

  1. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Messages: 5,954

    All herbicide labels call for "complete coverage" of weed foliage -- well....no Permagreen models (Centri/Ultra/ Magnum) offer this. Why?

    This is one of TWO substantial "downfalls" of Permagreen ride-ons. (the other is "fighting the gears" - why no hydro? like LESCO offers???)

    Okay - the Permagreen ride-ons kill dandelions, but they don't even touch small-leafed weeds like clover, knotweed, purslane, spurge, speedwell, chickweed, etc.

    Our first Permagreen ride-on was an Ultra (2003), and we NEVER used it for spraying (spreading fert only). In 2005, we finally installed a larger Shurflo pump (1.8 gpm/barely fit), and now we are seeing a little better weed control - not perfect, but improved.

    Still now, our Permagreen ride-ons produce a "spitting" of herbicide - still not complete coverage.

    I've communicated back & forth with Permagreen (God bless 'em cuz they try hard and are friendly), but they still ask the same questions:

    Are you mixing the correct amount of herbicide? Duh!!! I don't care what you put in the tank....you ain't gunna kill small-leafed weeds with a 'spit' on the leaf!

    We do not have any problem with weed control by spraying out of our hoses or by using our LESCO Ztwo spreader/sprayer. hmmmmmmm?

    Bottom line - anybody got answers? Thanks.
  2. sclawndr

    sclawndr LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 326

    Well, if you never tried spraying with the Centri, how do you know it doesn't work? The PG units work just fine on most weeds. I get clover kill very easily. The "spit" you refer to is a concentrated droplet - you don't need full coverage. If it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong. As for the gears, how many speeds do you need? Put it in high gear and go. You almost never need to use reverse if you work a good pattern.

    Bottom line - if you're looking to justify a Zspray, you don't need to bash PG. The current unit, the Magnum, is very simple and reliable. And unlike a hydro, there's almost no learning curve.
  3. philk17088

    philk17088 LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 17,386

    Spray over a driveway , you'll see the coverage you get. Add a surfactant and it is even better.
  4. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    The PG covers and kills everything that is sprayed...Everything. It delivers the same amount of product per sq. ft., and because it delivers small drplets, it covers all areas.
  5. Grandview

    Grandview LawnSite Gold Member
    from WI
    Messages: 3,251

    I like the no hydro and low volume of my Permagreen Magnums. The gear keeps my speed constant. I never use low gear. So you shift once to start. Weed control is not a probem. I am going over all the lawns I did last fall. Most are very weed free. I might find 5-6 dandelion in an acre. I had excellent success on ground ivy, chickweed, and clover last year, even under poor growing conditions. If you are having trouble with weed control I would check my output and ground speed. My guess is you are not putting enough herbicide in the tank. I switched to smaller nozzles on my Magnum, so I spray 6-7 gals/acre. I am looking for even smaller nozzles. I would like to get down to 5 gal/acre or less.
  6. stumper1620

    stumper1620 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,889

    What nozzle size did you use to get the higher coverage?
    I don't know what is being done wrong by american lawn, but i know I've had excellent weed kill this spring following the rate given by PG using Three-way, clover and all.
  7. Grandview

    Grandview LawnSite Gold Member
    from WI
    Messages: 3,251

    To get more coverage out of the Maganum use the nozzle for low gear when driving in high gear. The low gear nozzle is a number 3 and the high gear nozzle is a #5. You can get the same type of nozzle in a #2 if you want to go lower. I use two number 2s about 30 inches apart. Drift becomes more of an issue with the lower volumes. Just using the single 3 instead of the 5 will cut your volume by 40 percent. But you do want to check it before spraying.
  8. stumper1620

    stumper1620 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,889

    I'm gonna try the low gear nozzle in high and see how I do, thanks for the tip.
    If you are getting good kill I think i could too. The places i took over this year were really weed infested and I have spent a small fortune on three-way this year.
  9. J Hisch

    J Hisch LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 952

    When using the low gear nozzles in high gear how much herbicide are you putting in your tank? 50 oz.?
  10. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Messages: 5,954

    I am not bashing anyone. I thought I made that clear by stating that the Permagreen people were great people??? I don't want to enter any arguement as I am strictly trying to solve an internal company problem.

    Number of gears? What's this about?

    LESCO offers a unit with a hydrostatic transmission -- and it allows the user to set the exact ground speed whenever he wants (not an A or B option). Yes, reverse is good???

    Our problem is with small-leafed weeds. Clover control has been less than 100%. Spurge control has not been very good at all, unless we go in "low gear" with the grey nozzles. So what we've done is 1) Go in low gear with grey nozzles over the entire lawn, then 2) Go over the entire lawn again (in high gear) to apply the granular fertilizer.

    "If it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong".....Is this the help I should expect by posting on this site?

    As far as the Centri is concerned, we have never used one.

    I am not trying to justify anything whatsoever - our zero-turn sprayer/spreader does a beautiful job every time. Do you use one? -- Reason I ask is you say I am "bashing" "PG".

    Finally - "unlike 'hydro', the Magnum requires no learning curve". What is this all about? You may want to contact every professional lawn mower company and suggest they return to "gear-driven" machines. Sorry Exmark, Scag, Deere, Grasshopper, and a couple dozen other manufacturers.

    I have purchased 2 Permagreen Ultras on Ebay during the past 7 months ---- both units have one thing in common. Each previous owner stated that their unit had never been used to spray.

    Bottom line: your post "helped me not". I'm wondering why you replied.

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