PG Question on spraying

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by humble1, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. humble1

    humble1 LawnSite Silver Member
    from MA
    Messages: 2,519

    So im trying to build a spray rig for my ztr.

    Ok if the label is the law, and the label says 1 gallon of water per X oz of chemical to spread over 1000 sq ft of turf. Then how is it possible that the PG applies almost 1/4 of a gallon per 1000 sq ft?
    I understand it is low volume so do you put 4 times the chemical per gallon of water? Isnt that against the label?
  2. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,732

    That's what I thought also. But, at least with my state and a couple of the others, if you are getting the same amount of active ingredient over that same area, it doesn't matter whether you use 20 gal of water as a carrier or 200. So , if the label says use 2 pints per acre and your piece of equipment sprays 20 gals per acre. Put your 2 pints in there and you should be fine. I personally would check with my state for individual regulations just to CYA.
  3. Shades of Green LService

    Shades of Green LService LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,011

    Water isn't the issue. It's the AI. Your still getting same amount of product down p/1000
  4. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,163

    The label is the law..but sometimes you have to read between the lines and/or interpit the label.

    Shades of Green is right!

    We just talked about this last week :)laugh: Huh guys)!

    I was very confident of this, but called my Lesco man last week and he talked to the state guy. That state doesn't care about the carrier amount only the amount of AI that you apply/given area!

    Like Ted said, check with your state, but I am confident that none would have a problem with it!

    When going low volume make sure you use the correct tips so your micron size is good and you don't get excessive drift!
  5. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    I am going to disagree here... and yeah, I know I'm a newbie. Looking over my CORE, they talk about illegal residue concentrations. I think if the label specifically calls for a mix ratio, that is how concentrated the mixture is supposed to be. The phytotoxicity of the material will also be affected. As I understand it, a lower concentration of AI to carrier is fine, but a more highly concentrated mixture is not. That would be the definition of an illegal residue, would'nt it?

    In other words, controls that specifically call for a mix ratio may make some equipment ill suited for that particular app. You wouldn't apply it without a carrier, and the label specifically calls for a mix ratio. I think using a half gallon per X AI when a full gallon is called for is a cut and dry violation of the label.

    I understand this is the pat "test" answer....
  6. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,163


    I am not sure what part of the CORE you got the "illegal residue concentrations", but I would guess this has nothing to do with applications. I would guess this has something to do with spills or something with loading, but that is just a guess since I am not exactly sure what you are discussing.

    If the label states a certain "ratio or mix %) for the product then that would be the law. I just don't know of any products that are this way...that I use anyway!

    I have used alot of products both on the farm and for my lawn care business, and I have never heard of a "mix ratio" before.

    Do you have an example of a label that discusses the mix ration you are talking about?
  7. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Messages: 5,955

    Here's what I would do. Shop for a different product that does the same job, yet allows you to apply it at the amount per acre you want.:waving:
  8. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    Here in Michigan, believe it or not, it is an issue. there are many products that we cannot or or will not spray with a PG, but then again, there are many we do that we are not supposed to. If the DOA inspectors wanted to give us a hard time about it, they could. There are however many products that just simply do not work properly if they are not sprayed at the proper amounts (many surface insecticides and fungicides). This is why when we spray with a PG and the stuff doesn't get watered right in properly, something different should be used. Now, if technically the label states that x amount of total mix is to sprayed over 1000 ft., then it can be got around with layered applications (one over the top of another), but what is that? It still isn't doing what it is supposed to do, because it is too light and not penetrating the surface layer it is intended (hence the label instructions to begin with).
  9. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    I just used the words "mix ratio". Let's look at Rounup Pro's label. They list spray solutions as %'s, the highest of which is 10%. To apply it at 20%, or 50% would be in violation of the label. The residue may or may not afffect the material's days to harvest data, but common sense tells me it might. (the CORE verbage relates to the days to harvest and illegal residues) It is more toxic at higher than labeled concentraions, which could affect the PPE requirements. A 50% Roundup application would have to be more phytotoxic than what is reflected on the label I would think.

    My interpretation is that if a label lists several %'s, and the highest one is exceeded, that is a violation of the label. Instead of a %, Humble used a finite amount of material to carrier, but it's the same thing in my mind.... that's my interpretation anyways...
  10. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,732

    I'd like to know where everyone was...oh..about Monday last week. You missed a real humdinger of a discussion on this subject...

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