phosphorus ban

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by turf hokie, Nov 4, 2009.

  1. turf hokie

    turf hokie LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,751

    We are facing a phosphorus ban on Thursday (tomorrow) we just got told of it last night.

    If any one can help out with some facts or information on how this blanket ban will not do any good in regards to reducing the P in water etc it would be appreciated.

    I understand that Michigan banned P 5 years ago and studies show that there is no change in P in soil or water. Links or where I could find that would help.

    Just looking to sway some votes on a split legislature and do it intellegently.

  2. mdlwn1

    mdlwn1 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,443

    Who is we?...NY state, Nassau, Suffolk?
  3. turf hokie

    turf hokie LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,751

    Sorry MDlawn, we are ROCKLAND county trying to follow in the footsteps of westchester
    Posted via Mobile Device
  4. phasthound

    phasthound LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,999

    Turf Hokie,

    Is this a total ban on P, or does it depend upon soil tests and seeding? Does it include organic sources of P?

    We're going through this in Jersey. The DEP is requiring municipalities in the Passaic Rivershed to create fertilizer regulations.

    Our water system would be much better off if existing regulations were enforced and only trained professionals applied fertilizers and pesticides.
  5. EcoGreen Services

    EcoGreen Services LawnSite Member
    Messages: 205

    No kidding, In Ontario you need to be licensed even to use 100% natural products. Yet a homeowner can dump as much of whatever they want. And we all know they almost always over apply.

    I think we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to nutrient management.
  6. turf hokie

    turf hokie LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,751

    If you have a soil test that shows a need or if you just planted a NEW lawn, not an overseeding you can apply.

    It does not exempt organics.

    Mind you I am all for environmental awareness. I would agree with EcoGreen, I think we are in for a long haul. But the problem lies with the lack of enforcement of existing laws like Barry said as well as lack of searching out unlicensed "professionals". These laws continually hamstring those of us that generally do the right thing and are licensed.
  7. tlg

    tlg LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 651

    Phosphorus is still in use in Michigan. At least for now. There has been talk of eliminating P for some time. Right or wrong I'm sure it will happen. I have implemnted a phos free program all ready. Mostly as a cost cutting measure for the most part. I will never buy the story of lawn fertilizer being the main cause of phosphorus loading in our lakes. Good healthy turf acts as a filter for runoff of all sorts and phosphorus binds to soils anyway. Those that want to ban P are just looking for a scapegoat IMO. The current legislation in Michigan WOULD allow farmers to continue to apply P, but ban everybody else. I guess farmers have a better lobbyist. More P goes into our lakes from organic debris ( leaves, bird crap, dog crap etc...), deicing materials on our roads, sewage overflows from municipalities and soil erosion than any lawn fertilizer containing P. I would also add that the Great Lakes are cleaner than they have ever been. If your old enough to remember when Lake Erie was " dying " the main cause was attributed to P from laundry soaps and P from poor farming practices. ( over 40 years ago ) This was well before commercial lawn fertilizing really got going big in the late 1970's. Kinda hard to blame lawn fertilizers. Try for info you can use. Good Luck.
  8. mikesturf

    mikesturf LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 797

    Off the topic, but in Illinois Nursing homes are required by the EPA to dump all their expired narcotics, drugs, medicines down the drain! Not to incinerate, but to put it in our water system.
  9. turf hokie

    turf hokie LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,751

    Thanks TLG. Good info on the site. We went phos free almost 3 years ago. But have added some back in as we implement organics into our program. Hard to take the P out of the organics. But we are now showing deficencies in our soil test for both P and K as we cut down on K b/c of cost as well.

    I know they will let us apply P if a soil test shows a need. I just dont like the idea that they are coming after our industry again.

    The legislature has already passed a bill banning anything on county owned property if it is not deemed "safe" pretty broad if you ask me. It is a slippery slope here right now.

    All b/c one legislator keeps presenting these things b/c it is the politically correct thing to do right now.


    Thanks for the help. I will update after tonites meeting.
  10. mdlwn1

    mdlwn1 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,443

    Too bad this is what happens when 90% of the industry just jams lawns with fert. (not saying the p in water as much as the state of the industry) I wouldnt have a clue how much does or does not get into the water supply. Successful farmers arent idiots like the majority of lco's. I dont understand why our own industry has not pressured for self regulation such as a 5 year mandatory appretentice program....

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