Please show me an MR-16 LED equivalent to ESX BAB FRA and FMW

Discussion in 'Landscape Lighting' started by Prolightscaper, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. Prolightscaper

    Prolightscaper LawnSite Member
    Messages: 65

    I will attempt to approach this in a different manner.

    I am not challenging anyone and I am not looking to insult anyone .

    I am looking for an MR-16 LED replacement for ESX BAB FRA and FMW.

    What I have seen so far in my opinion is not close to equivalent ie- color, beam control and output.

    I do not want a proprietary driver and fixture such as Kichler, DG or Vista

    I am happy with the MR-16 halogen fixtures I am using

    I do not care if the LED is specifically designed for outdoor lighting as MR-16 never were nor were they ever intended to be used outdoors. However they do so very nicely inside a fixture which remains dry.

    I am concerned about an LED which will perform in a hot enclosed non open air cooled environment. This obviously is a must as our LV fixtures are small relatively speaking.

    At this point longevity is impossible to verify as it is way too soon and they have simply not been in the field long enough to truly gauge. So let's take that off the list of considerations. I am willing to assume the risk as there is no other choice.

    So far what I've seen posted on this bd. is not acceptable. No offense intended just my opinion. It is not acceptable because again in my opinion the color is too cold and the output insufficient for larger subjects. Not nearly close to halogen. Obviously there is no standardization for color rendition as a rated 2700 kelvin LED is not equivalent to a 3000 kelvin halogen. The halogen appears much warmer yet the rating suggests otherwise. Pure rubbish.

    What I am saying is that until there is an equal replacement for halogen I will not sacrifice my designs just to save energy and reduce the carbon footprint.
    That is not why I am hired. I am hired to provide the best lighting effect possible. No one has ever bought my service for my ability to save their electric bill.

    I am not against LED technology nor have even been. I am simply looking for an equivalent and once it is introduced to me I will offer and use it.

    Please- no line by line dissection and diatribe and or sales pitch of this post.

    I would like a referral, I will make the appropriate investigation and take it from there.

    If you'd rather contact me in private please do so.

    If you don't wish to respond to some anonymous nobody then it is your right.

    One more thing- Third party referrals only who actually use and have had success with and have no financial interest in the product

    Thank you for reading
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  2. Illumicare

    Illumicare Inactive
    Messages: 148

    Well your list of exclusions and limitations is rather restrictive. LOL.

    I can tell you that our 15 degree and 45 degree 3000K LED MR16 will replace a GE ESX and GE BAB and provide the same light output, colour and even better beam consistency.

    There currently only exists one LED lamp on the market that comes close to replacing a FMW and that lamp is from CRS Electronics here in Welland Ontario. It is not quite as bright as a 35W FMW but it is darned close. Expect to pay anywhere from $75 to $92 each depending on your source! We are in the final stages of testing for our FMW replacement and hope to put it into production soon.

    Before you buy any LED lamp, you should be sure to get the full technical data for that product. Most manufacturers and re-sellers will state a bunch of stats and claims, but do not back it up with the raw data from the testing instruments.

    You had better be concerned that any LED Lamp you try is designed to be used in enclosed fixtures and moist humid environments.... because if it is not, you will find an unacceptable level of premature failures. LED lamps are electronic devices and if not properly protected from moisture (even humidity / internal condensation is an issue) they will fail in an outdoor lighting application.
  3. Prolightscaper

    Prolightscaper LawnSite Member
    Messages: 65

    If some are to proclaim (yet still no pictorial proof to back it up) that LED is now here for landscape lighting and there is nothing we can't do with LED that we can do with halogen then no my exclusions and limitations are not too great.

    How otherwise can you compare the two if they are not held to the same exacting standards.

    Specifications and product data mean little as do real life observation and field experimentation and implementation which is all that matters.

    It's like in the speaker world. You can get a cheap speaker for under 100 bucks that on paper looks like it sounds great and may even have better specs than those of much higher priced high fidelity counterparts costing in the thousands. However in comparison you will find that the much more expensive speaker is night and day superior to the cheap low quality one.

    Obviously the high priced LED you mentioned is not a viable alternative .

    So if in your own words right now- there is not a 35 watt reasonably priced LED replacement. How is LED for outdoor lighting here now and how is it a 100% replacement for halogen as these are the claims I've been hearing by some on this bd?

    And yes it is true LED's do come from Asia and not canada. Asia has a notorious reputation for cheap inferior low price product when it comes to light bulbs.
  4. Illumicare

    Illumicare Inactive
    Messages: 148

    "Prolightscapes" I have a feeling that no matter what is presented to you, that you have already made up your mind.

    I have published a significant body of work, the overwhelming majority of it being lit with LED lamps, over the past two years. Do some searching of this forum and the INTEGRA Works website and look for yourself.

    If you are not able to understand or decipher the significant and complete specifications provided, and must rely on field experimentation and implementation then go for it. Start ordering your sample lamps. I did... I have well over 100 different LED MR16s from all over the world here at my shop; from Italy, India, UK, Taiwan, Canada, Korea, Japan and China. As for the LEDs themselves, they come from all over the world, not just China. Japan (Nichia), Korea (Seoul Semi Conductor), Lumileds (Phillips - Europe & SE Asia), Cree (USA & SE Asia) and Citizen (Japan) are some of the biggest and best manufacturers of LEDs. There are literally tens of thousands of "no name" LED manufacturers whose products I would be highly suspicious of. If your LED lamp or fixture of choice is not willing to reveal the LED chips they use, or the full metrics, I would be very suspicious of their quality. These days, literally anyone can purchase the machines necessary for making LED chips... even people in Canada. :)

    Just because products are made in "Asia" does not mean they are cheap or inferior. Some of the most high quality products in the world are made in China. Canon Cameras, Apple everything, Toshiba and IBM computers, are but a few. It all comes down to the engineering, component procurement, quality control and factory oversight.

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