Lawn Care Forum banner

pool sank in 2 hours

33K views 67 replies 24 participants last post by  CollegeMowers 
#1 ·
I recently installed a patio around a pool. The pool company put the pool a foot away from a customer built wall against my recommendations that it would fail. When I finished I noticed that the pool wall on the customer built wall was stretched out almost a foot. I call the customer and told him he need to call the pool company asap and this was a big deal. The pool guys never showed. The pool liner stretched so far that it developed a hole and was leaking water behind the customer built wall with dirt backfill. We got a 4 inch rain 2 days later and the customer called me up saying that the patio was sinking everywhere. When I got there the eveidence showed the pool moved and was sliding down hill. The Pool company said that it was because of my compaction but admitted to the pool moving. I have been fighting with them to cover it and they think I should cover it. The customer is on my side and refuses to see me brought into this with being on me and I feel bad for the customer because he was told bad information by a sales guy thats never built anything. The sales guy even asked me if I would put concrete in the backside of the customer built wall to reinforce his pool. He was upset with me when I said no because I felt the wall was unstable and I was not going to be any part of it. The customer had a structual engineer come out and write a report saying the pool moved causing my Patio to fail but they still wont own up to it. I have a meeting with the pool company tomorrow but he wouldnt tell me over the phone if they were going to cover it. He even went as far as telling the customer they didnt believe the engineers report. The customer said they didn't believe me either when I said the wall would fail and the guy shut up. I have 3 foot of base compacted every two inches. Has anyone else had this problem and is there any advice for me. Thanks Water Water resources Property Building Azure


Plant Building Tree Shade Road surface


Water Blue Road surface Stairs Plant


Water Water resources Property Building Azure


Plant Building Tree Shade Road surface


Water Blue Road surface Stairs Plant


Plant Road surface Tree Asphalt Grass


Water Swimming pool Road surface Asphalt Flooring
 
See less See more
5
#4 ·
Its a fox pool. Hindsight I should have walked away from it but was blinded by the design aspect because it was so unique. The sad part is how many times I told the customer it was going to fail and yet I still did it. I thought it would slowly fail but not two days after completion.
 
#6 ·
he was smart and retained one right away when they wouldn't respond to him after it moved. They agreed to fix everything except my portion. But they are trying to do a cheap fix and now the customer sees it. I told him they are just trying to shut him up until next year when it fails again then they can say the warranty is up. Customer is being way to nice about it and is trying to see the best in everyone but I see a pool company trying to pass the buck and could care less about the customer.
 
#8 ·
The pics are as good quality as your paragraph structure. All that crammed into one paragraph bored by attention span.

I'm looking on a smartphone, all I see is settled paver base. Looks like poor compactin on my screen.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#9 ·
I dont want to play devils advocate. However the pool company installed the pool on a base the customer built (the wall). There for how is it the pool companies fault, also how is it your fault? The wall appears to be what caused the pool to move and shift. ALthough I agree the pool company should have never built on it, there not the ones who installed hte wall.
 
#10 ·
The pics are as good quality as your paragraph structure. All that crammed into one paragraph bored by attention span.

I'm looking on a smartphone, all I see is settled paver base. Looks like poor compactin on my screen.
Posted via Mobile Device
DVS, the wall built by homeowner is on opposite side of pool as pavers. The pool is pushing the wall & pulling away from pavers. In the 1 pic of with side of pool & pavers not in pic....you can see the rim of the pool takes a dive toward the homeowner built wall. This is what I think I'm seeing.

Also on original post, there are 2 attatchments after last pic. The 1st attatchment is the wall being pushed over!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#11 ·
DVS, the wall built by homeowner is on opposite side of pool as pavers. The pool is pushing the wall & pulling away from pavers. In the 1 pic of with side of pool & pavers not in pic....you can see the rim of the pool takes a dive toward the homeowner built wall. This is what I think I'm seeing.

Also on original post, there are 2 attatchments after last pic. The 1st attatchment is the wall being pushed over!
Posted via Mobile Device
Thats the point I was trying to make. The pool company should have never built ontop of that wall. However, the pavers and the pool FAILED because of the home owners wall. I would guess (im no lawyer and fortunally never have been in this position) that it makes the homeowner liable to both the pool and pavers?
 
#12 ·
Everyone from homeowner to pool installer to hardscape contractor are at fault. Homeowner because he didn't do his due dilegence and get some sound advice before going ahead, pool installer for installing what almost looks like an inground pool , above ground. Lastly contractor (you) for taking on a job that even you knew was going to fail. Nasty all around.
 
#13 · (Edited)
The pool builder should never have agreed to build a structure on/in an area not suitable. The assumed liability by agreeing to place the structure there. Like I say in many of my posts at this site, you can not always do what the customer wants.

On the other hand, how do we know that the patio builder didn't cause a pipe to rupture? how Dow we know the patio contractor didn't cause a tear in the liner? A torn liner or a broken pipe will leak water and the hydrostatic pressure could cause such a disturbance.

And....the patio guy should have never agreed to build a patio in conjunction with a sub-par retaining wall.

You gotta know what you're looking at when you go look at jobs and draft contracts. If there are unsuitable conditions that play into the integrity of your work - you need to write a clause in your contract indemnifying you of liability and responsibility resulting from the identified existing conditions. I do it all the time, and the jobs never sell, and that's perfectly fine with me. lord, I could go on and on and on with stories.

This will probably go to court. There will be expert witnesses. I was an expert witness for patio litigation. There will probably be 2 days of testimony. The pool builders attorney will try to find dirt on the patio guy. If your states requires contractor licensing,
And if you're not licensed, you can bet the pool builders attorney will NOT let that slip by.

All parties who had a hand of any type in that project will be listed in the suit.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#16 ·
Meeting did't go well. Pool company said they didn't beleive the engineers when they said it was the pools fault even though we agreed that whatever the engineer said we would follow. He tried bullying me with metioning that he had lawyers and that it would get ugly in which I stated I have a lawyer too as well as 5 pages of documentions and pictures stating everything that has been said between myself, the customer and the pool company. I asked him if he had an engineer degree or if he was a professional landscaper and if not how can he make a expert opinion of what happen especially when he couldn't identify that installing on that ground was a mistake. I told him I'm walking away and that it was his problem and if they want me to repair it then they need to give me a chaiers check for the full amount before I step foot on the property. He didn't have much to say and said he would get back to me. The original plan was for the pool to be installed 3 feet away from the wall and when I said something to him about my concern he said they were comfortable with building on it so I second guessed myself because they have been installing pools for 30 years. Then when I got there for my part the pool was 14" lower and one foot off the wall. I had to redesign and add steps because of this. I might beleive the compaction if one the pool didnt move and buckle at the same time and two all of the setteling took place over 20 mins and hasn't moved since. I should have never taken the job and will always go with my gut from here on out. I talked to the customer and he is going to sue the pool guys for everything so Im clear of it(so I think). But we will see what happens. Just a nasty deal all around and they don't want to pay for it.
 
#17 ·
Meeting did't go well. Pool company said they didn't beleive the engineers when they said it was the pools fault even though we agreed that whatever the engineer said we would follow. He tried bullying me with metioning that he had lawyers and that it would get ugly in which I stated I have a lawyer too as well as 5 pages of documentions and pictures stating everything that has been said between myself, the customer and the pool company. I asked him if he had an engineer degree or if he was a professional landscaper and if not how can he make a expert opinion of what happen especially when he couldn't identify that installing on that ground was a mistake. I told him I'm walking away and that it was his problem and if they want me to repair it then they need to give me a chaiers check for the full amount before I step foot on the property. He didn't have much to say and said he would get back to me. The original plan was for the pool to be installed 3 feet away from the wall and when I said something to him about my concern he said they were comfortable with building on it so I second guessed myself because they have been installing pools for 30 years. Then when I got there for my part the pool was 14" lower and one foot off the wall. I had to redesign and add steps because of this. I might beleive the compaction if one the pool didnt move and buckle at the same time and two all of the setteling took place over 20 mins and hasn't moved since. I should have never taken the job and will always go with my gut from here on out. I talked to the customer and he is going to sue the pool guys for everything so Im clear of it(so I think). But we will see what happens. Just a nasty deal all around and they don't want to pay for it.
Sorry about your luck but I would have to say it is the home owners fault more than the pool company because the wall moved causing the pool and patio to move.
 
#18 ·
Pool builders are supposed to have soil tests and engineering done before building a pool. Just a retaining wall builders are supposed to have engineering done before building a wall.

I have a buddy who's company builds 8-10 pools a year. And never ever do they price and or build a pool until soil tests and engineering have been executed. Most pool builders will bypass the engineering part.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#19 ·
My very first question when I first saw the yard was is he pool company getting a soil test or having an engineer check it out. They said they have been doing it for 30 years and know what their doing. Lol. In my quote for building that wall I stated I would have a structural engineer oversee the project but they are just going to rebuild it using the same block. Today they said they won't be doing any work in the yard because I wouldn't compromise with them. In the meeting I told them I don't want anything to do with that wall and told them what they were doing to rebuild it would fail again. In the same email today they said they were seeking other recommendations on building the wall and fixing their pool. So are they stopping because of me or because they don't know how to fix it and need some advice. It drives me nuts because the customer told them that he built the wall and they said no problem. Therefore it's all on them for accepting it. The problem is they had a new sales guy running the show with no building experience and now they are trying to do damage control for his mistake. Trust me I regret ever taking this job but it did look great and unique for 48 hours. I guess now its defiantly a one of a kind. This has been going on for over a month.
 
#21 ·
Have you been paid?
Oh yeah. The day I finished. The owner and I have become pretty good friends throughout this and talk almost everyday. He said he doesn't want me to do any work on the repairs until I get money whether its from him or the pool company. But my guards up because when it comes to money people can act goofy
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#22 ·
Oh yeah. The day I finished. The owner and I have become pretty good friends throughout this and talk almost everyday. He said he doesn't want me to do any work on the repairs until I get money whether its from him or the pool company. But my guards up because when it comes to money people can act goofy
Posted via Mobile Device
The pool company will not be paying you, they will use their own contractor before they pay you.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#24 ·
The owner won't allow any other company to do it but at the same time the pool company is fighting me enough that I told them if I don't get money in hand find another company to do it. I told the customer to have them pull the pool out and give up on the idea because he will have to deal with them forever because no one else will work on their pool. I called another pool company I deal with and he said he looked at doing a pool at this house and walked away because he knew this would happen.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#25 · (Edited)
Knowing this and knowing that is all moot at this point. Totally irrelevant.

Think about this bud. The homemowner wants the pool fixed. See, you're the one who wants the pool company sued. But its not your home, nor your money. Say the pool company says "ok, we'll fix it we'll start next week", the home owner has no say in who does what. If the pool company were to cooperate (remember that's what the homeowner ultimately wants), the homeowner will not have any say in the matter, and doing so would give the contractor leverage in court. Me, as a contractor, I would fix it before we would go to court, much cheaper for EVERYONE. But it would be on my terms.

Now, is there anything about your patio you don't want another hardscape guy discovering? You used geotextile fabric right? You used the proper sand and aggregate, right?

I'm not intending to be a jerk. One thing my dad taught me when I was a teen ager is "everybody is always nice until it comes to money". Words I live by. Along with these two words: "wishing thinking"

.

Posted via Mobile Device
 
#26 ·
I would much rather everything get fixed especially for the home owner but my problem is they want to do the cheap fix to get them through the winter so they can wash their hands of it. They keep wanting to just fix the wall with the same block and not use geogrid and get the proper drainage. It's a messy deal that could be fixed and everyone is happy but they keep pushing him off and playing the blame game. As far as my patio I'm comfortable with what we've done as far as being right and want to get it back to the original look but also don't want to come back next year and redo it again because corners were cut to save money. I don't think your being a jerk at all. I appreciate the comments. In your comment you said you would fix it before you went to court which is where I stand. If I felt I did a poor job I would be eating repairs because my reputation means everything to me but they don't look at it this way. Again I appreciate your comments.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top