pre on warm season turf

grassmasterswilson

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
nc
After reading the "gallery thread" I got to thinking about pre on warm season turf. I know that many pre's aren't good on warm season turf because it stunts the rhizonmes and lateral growth. We often use barricade/prodiamine because of its cost and effectiveness.

Applying the proper pre to warm season is expensive from what I hear. What are the best pre's for residential warm season turf that won't stop lateral growth. Ronstar may be one of these. I would think a mix of ronstar/gallery would be costly but provide excellent control and may allow for a few spot treatments instead of blanket apps.
 

Turf Dawg

LawnSite Gold Member
I know their are several people on here that talk about the "root pruning" on warm season turf and I respect their opinion and knowledge. However, I really do not seem to have any type of problem on the lawns I treat, in fact there is a night and day difference on treated vs untreated lawns in my area. I will admit I do not use as much pre on St Augustine lawns but on the Bermuda lawns I use atleast three rounds of pre per season. Feb/March-Prodiamine, June-Pendi and Sep-Prodiamine [although this was such a bad year hear I used Simazine in Oct.]
 

ted putnam

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Arkansas
Turfdawg, are those first 2 you put down half rates or full rate apps? They are also different products. I did that this year and had pretty good results. It was the first time I'd ever tried it. I always end up spraying a little crab post emerg late summer/early fall to some degree. Some years more than others. I varied my pre products this year in an effort to control a wider range of broadleafs and it seemed to work well. Of course, it was so hot and dry, there may not have been an opportunity for late crabgrass germination.

As long as I am applying the proper rates, I do not concern myself with root pruning in established bermuda. I work around anything seeded or sodded and keep the customer informed on why I didn't use pre's on those areas and what they can expect on that area and from us through the course of the season.
 

Skipster

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
Billings, MT
I agree with Turf Dawg and Putnam that root-inhibiting PREs don't usually cause problems with established turf. They can be a problem with thin turf if you want to encourage the surrounding turf to fill in or if you want to sod/seed. I have noticed in the past problems with using root inhibiting PREs on St. Aug and centipede because it prevented noew stolons from rooting, leaving it open to winter injury and thin canopy, which made the weed problems worse, despite the PRE app.

PRE apps on warm-season turf are all about what you want to control at a particular time of year. Ronstar is not labeled for residential lawns, so we can't use that. But, fall apps usually target annual bluegrass, while spring/summer apps usually target broadleaves and crabgrass or goosegrass (depending on your location).
 
OP
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grassmasterswilson

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
nc
Thanks guys. I have some really nice and thick lawns, but also have some that could use a chance to thicken up and spread.

I usually do a split app of prodiamine in Feb and April. The professor at my local university said that it does better with a 66-33 rate instead of 50-50. Might give it a try this year. I then do a simazine app in fall for henbit/poa.
 

ted putnam

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Arkansas
Thanks guys. I have some really nice and thick lawns, but also have some that could use a chance to thicken up and spread.


IMO, proper mowing height and frequency has as much to do with a bermuda lawn spreading as the fert/weed control that is applied( unless shade is the #1 reason for it being thin.) Mowing at 3-4 inches every 7-10 days will not encourage recovery. Mowing at 1.5- 2.5 every 5-7 will.



I usually do a split app of prodiamine in Feb and April. The professor at my local university said that it does better with a 66-33 rate instead of 50-50. Might give it a try this year. I then do a simazine app in fall for henbit/poa.



We do the same.
 
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Turf Dawg

LawnSite Gold Member
Turfdawg, are those first 2 you put down half rates or full rate apps? They are also different products. I did that this year and had pretty good results. It was the first time I'd ever tried it. I always end up spraying a little crab post emerg late summer/early fall to some degree. Some years more than others. I varied my pre products this year in an effort to control a wider range of broadleafs and it seemed to work well. Of course, it was so hot and dry, there may not have been an opportunity for late crabgrass germination.

As long as I am applying the proper rates, I do not concern myself with root pruning in established bermuda. I work around anything seeded or sodded and keep the customer informed on why I didn't use pre's on those areas and what they can expect on that area and from us through the course of the season.
The first round of prodiamine is the heavy rate listed. The pendi is mixed with fert and the last prodiamine is mixed with fert but a less % [hope this makes sense]. I maybe wrong, but I would rather do this than spray post several times a year. I guess if I mixed in some Gallery I might only spray once a year.

I am like you on the new lawns that are thin and more weeds than grass. On those I do not even use pre's till I get them looking good.

I know you do not have much St Augustine, if any, but on those I generally just use the prodiamine in feb/march and just use Celcius a couple times a year after that
 

bamaturf

LawnSite Member
Location
alabama
grassmasterswilson
we put pre m down in oct to prevent henbit poa etc, so you wont have to go back
& spray post herb. my 2 cents
 

fireman gus

LawnSite Senior Member
Location
Enid, Oklahoma
We use prodiamine at full strength in Feb-March. The second app is Pre-M auqa cap. the last app in Oct-Nov is either Simizine or Pre-M.As for Ronstar IO am thinking of using it on some yards this next Feb-Mar because of Goosegrass.
 

Skipster

LawnSite Bronze Member
Location
Billings, MT
We use prodiamine at full strength in Feb-March. The second app is Pre-M auqa cap. the last app in Oct-Nov is either Simizine or Pre-M.As for Ronstar IO am thinking of using it on some yards this next Feb-Mar because of Goosegrass.
If you're going to say that on here, you'd better be ready to get a visit from the ag inspector next year -- some guys here will surely report you on it.

On the front of the Ronstar label it says "Not for use in Turfgrass on Residential Properties" and in large capital letters NOT FOR USE ON HOME LAWNS.

I don't want to sound like those guys on here who blast everyone who dares to post here without listing their certified applicator number, but it really is the people who spray without knowing what they're doing that give our business a bad name.
 

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