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Question for Pest Control Operators..

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by rob7233, May 24, 2008.

  1. rob7233

    rob7233 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 870

    Can someone tell me who have/are dealing with Chinch bug in St. Augustine(Floratam) if the resistance they develop to pesticides is for that entire class of chemicals or for that particular version of pesticide within that same class?

    For example, rotating pesticide chemicals to reduce the incidence of developing resistance, would it be (as) effective to rotate products within the same chemical class? Or they must only be in different chemical classes (I know this gets the best results) ?
  2. bug-guy

    bug-guy LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,029

    rob i'm in hernando cty and we have had resistance with bifenthrin. i worked @ a company where fmc came and vaccumed some out of our lawns and admited to the resistance.
    if there is a resistance to bifenthrin then permethrin and cypermethrin will be ineffective also.
    rotations would have to include sevin and dlyox as well as aloft and arena.
    i'm sure there are others but check the labels for restrictions

  3. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    You are answering your own question. Yes rotate chemical families.
  4. ArizPestWeed

    ArizPestWeed LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,457

    You cannot use more than what the label states of any one pesticide , however , you can use more than one pesticide in the same family , therefore , doubling the amount which may control the target .
    You can even use 3 or more .
    You can make several applications using different pesticides for better control.
    Maybe the resistance is only at that small % of that one pesticide
  5. tamadrummer

    tamadrummer LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,102

    Wouldn't this totally kill the budget if infact it became necessary to use more than one chemical to achieve control?
  6. ArizPestWeed

    ArizPestWeed LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,457

    Bifenthrin cost about 20 cents a gallon when mixed , so maybe you triple it to 60 cents a gallon .
    To get through 1 or 2 jobs , I do not see it as a problem .

    I have mixed 3 pre-emergents in one application for better control , the cost was covered ,
  7. tamadrummer

    tamadrummer LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,102

    I should have known better but I had to ask. Of course I am only treating one yard, (My own) so the cost of using several pesticides is super high for me.

    I did just put down Talstar and lambda-cyhalothrin (Triazicide) because it did not seem that the Talstar did what I needed it to with the ants this time.

    I used a blend from Growers made by Howards fert. 15-0-15 with like .069 (I think) bifenthrin and it was 19.50 per 50# bag and 2.58 lbs scu this is all from memory so it could be wrong. My results from the fert are unbelievable!!!! The best I have ever had on my lawn but the ants laughed at the Talstar....:cry:
  8. rob7233

    rob7233 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 870

    I do realize that rotating out of chemical families is best but is rotating within the same chemical family work as well? Also, why is it that some of the big national chains seemed to seldom do this or at least too infrequently.
  9. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,766

    That happens especially when the big chains or more correctly, whoever is supplying all of the LCO's in town locks everyone into buying granules containing the same AI. I notice it is quite common to have fertilizer + bifenthrin, where is the Dylox or Sevin? Even Sevin and Dylox have a related mode of action, so the ideal thing to do is not to apply them next to each other. I would also be reluctant to blend insecticides, lest I develop a species that is resistant to everything legal to apply. I am not happy about Allectus or Aloft. What an easy way to create pests resistant to both pyrethroids and nicotinic insecticides. Those two chemical classes are among the few still legal to apply on a residential lawn. A big part of resistance development has to do with poor application. Insects exposed to a partial dose live and pass on the genetics of resistance.

    When the Southern chinch bug came to Hawaii in the 1990's, I was new to the business and a freshman in University. But I knew enough that rotation and application was everything. Back then, I rotated between Sevin, Orthene, Tempo, Turcam(bendiocarb), diazinon and Dursban. Everything but the Sevin and Tempo is now illegal on residential turf. My application technique was to run everything through a walking boom with solid cone nozzles at 10 gallons/M and 300 PSI at the boom. I never encountered problems controlling this pest, except for one client who insisted on throwing Dursban granules monthly on the lawn in addition to whatever I was spraying. Needless to say, only Sevin, Tempo and Turcam worked on that lawn because the pests were very organophosphate tolerant. What a numbnut, he created chinch bugs that were pesticide resistant, yet he continued to spread Dursban and blame me for not controlling his pests.
  10. rob7233

    rob7233 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 870

    Thanks, GreenDoctor. After reading your post, it seems that the industry has done a lot in creating it's own problems with resistance. In addition, the homeowner that will not follow instructions or won't irrigate to get the product into the target zone. Additionally, what I've seen that's also sad is the LCO that comes and cuts the lawn soon after the liquid application.

    I'm guessing it's pretty tough to try to educate the customer about BMP's & IPM. I've had some local PCO's tell me, if it doesn't stink when the customer gets home, they think you did nothing. Between the bad maintenance & cultural practices of primarily the homeowner( cutting too short/over irrigating etc.) , along with other under educated techs or services, the high or unrealistic expectations of the customer, and all the while your trying to be responsible with your apps., I'd say it's got to be real difficult to get it right... ;)

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