Question for Ric

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by klsgc, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969



    I appreciate your in put and respect your knowledge and Experience on both C-3 & C-4 turfs. Fact is you are better qualified to answer the question about cool season turf. However I want to make a Big Distinction Between FINE TURF AND UTILITY TURF

    FINE TURF we use PGR to increase the Health of the turf. They are the kind of PGR that change growth Hormones by redirecting them. Their Goal might be Root Extension and mass or any number of other goals. Therefore we are spending money to maintain a higher Quality expensive turf.

    UTILITY TURF we use PGR to cut cost while maintaining a erosion control. Therefore we need a ground cover that is both low install cost and even lower maintenance costs. Cheaper PGR that STUNT Growth (like Glyphosate) is a more acceptable product.

    PS. One More Time IMHO the Utility Turf market if promoted and managed properly could be a Biggie. But there is a huge Learning and teaching curve. You must first educate the customer in order to sell him.

  2. klsgc

    klsgc LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    Hey guys, thanks for all the info. This is great! From what my own research shows and what you are saying on here, gly is not a good option for my situation. I have fine turf that I am just trying to slow down, and seedhead supression on the poa would just be the icing on the cake. I think I will do some trials with embark and primo. Does anyone have any experience how long an application will last and how much mowing this will cut back?
  3. txgrassguy

    txgrassguy LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,083

    All depends on your cultural maintenance program and climate.
    "Ball parking" an average for Embark is about one month for top growth suppression while allowing for continued root development. Further, depending upon how you apply the Embark, you may see results in as little as one-week.
    Primo is quite a bit more sensitive regarding timing and Poa seed head suppression. The staff agronomists at the USGA should have plenty of info detailing growing degree information and Poa suppression using Primo. I will say the residual PGR ability of Primo is about 45-60 days, again depending upon a whole host of inputs.
    Your best bet is to contact the closest USGA staff agronomy office for info.
    Since it has been oodles of ages following my last membership in the GCSAA they may have changed some of their policies on data sharing. Used to be you had to be a member to gain access but now who knows.
    Either way it can't be that hard finding out data on Poa seed head suppression using PGRs.
  4. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    I will second the Climate and species of turf when it comes to response. Both length and speed of response is very depended on the climate. Right now here in Florida we are getting pounded by rain every day which is starting earlier than normal as well as above normal rain fall. Everything is growing like crazy and Fertilizer is being used up as fast as we can put it down. Nothing is lasting. At the Same time Texas is hurting for water and has large cracks in the ground where it is splitting open from lack of water.

    So Depending on the time of year, (temperature and Rain fall Etc) PGR work at different rates. Right now I am lucky to get 3 weeks of visible response out of Primo on St Augustine. A normal time would be 45 to 60 days once again depending on weather. But I don't cut the grass or visit the property weekly so I am not in a position to check it. But I am seeing what I believe is the response I am looking for with bare spots filling in faster than no PGR.

    The difference in Response of Primo on St Augustine compared to the response of Glyphosate on Bahia is HUGE. Therefore I keep the PGR of the different types of turf totally separate from each other. Which brings me back to my Original Point about Fine Turf Vs Utility Turf.


    Blue grass is 26 OZ Per acre. Fescue Turf is 33 OZ. Rye and Fescue 31 is 44 OZ per acre. WARM SEASON RATES ARE. St A = 4.5 to 6.5 OZ per acre Bermuda is 33 OZ and Bahia is 44 oz. There is a wide range Between St A than Bermuda than Blue Grass and Fescue. Besides the Economic problems I believe there is still the Mono-stand problem that I spoke of Earlier in this thread. Different Species react different to each Chemical.

    I am going to start another post so this one isn't as long.

  5. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969



    When applying PGR application becomes real important. Fine Turf I apply at 5 Gallon per thousand or a VERY FORGIVING RATE. I also make a Coccktail of Fertilizer and Insecticide along with my PGR. I have no problem when doing this other than hauling more water for less coverage.

    Economic Chemical Mowing of large areas mean LOW VOLUME AND HIGH PERCENTAGE OF AI. This opens Pandora's Box for Stripping and Mohawks. One of the reason Chemical Mowing as the OP ask about has stayed in the Agriculture or Utility Turf market and not Fine Turf.

    We are in fact mixing two things and saying they are the same when in fact they are not the same. We use PGR on Fine Turf and Chemically Mow Utility Turf.

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