quetion for the pros

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by touhey33, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. touhey33

    touhey33 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 778

    I do not have my pesticide liscense yet, (plan on getting it this fall and upcoming winter for 2006). But as for treating my own yard, was wondering if i put pre emergence down can i put grub control down at same time or will this burn the grass.
  2. dmoney

    dmoney LawnSite Member
    Messages: 47

    There should not be any problem with putting them both down at the same time
  3. green with envy

    green with envy LawnSite Member
    Messages: 219

    In my opinion I would want to have my pre down before I put down the grub control. I only put down early grub control IF I notice a grub presense. I check every lawn on my second app. Then if a Curative app is needed I will put one down. I normally will not put down a preventive in the spring.

  4. cemars

    cemars LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 387

    How do you plan on applying these products? The only reason to apply them both at once is if you are tank mixing them and trying to kill two birds with one stone, but even then its not such a good idea. It has nothing to do with the grub control burning the grass, it won't matter when or how you apply it or what else its used with assuming that it is not a combination product mixed with fertilizer, which could burn if over applied. The reason is the timing, your pre-emergent would ideally be put down at month or more before a preventative grub control like merit or mach 2. Unless your lawn is huge or you are busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest, do them separately.
  5. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,969

    touhey, do you have grubs? What kind of grub control? Need that info before making any useful comment.

    Grub control now is usually just a waste of time and money.
  6. touhey33

    touhey33 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 778

    Thanks for the advice, i went ahead and did some studying on my own, didn't realize that grub control wasn't put down until later in the season. Last year I did see a couple grubs in a new bed i was tilling, also had alot of japenese beetles, so i figured if i had them i had grubs, plus in a couple of spots on my lawn the grass was yellowing. Of course this could be alot of things. Again thanks for the advice.
  7. cemars

    cemars LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 387

    Good job on doing some research. I'll mention a few more things about grubs in case you didn't come across it. First off, a few grubs in your beds or the lawn isn't anything to be concerned about. I am willing to bet that you could find grubs in the beds or lawns of almost every property in the US. The problem is when they exceed a threshold level that is 6 or more per square foot. If you have that level in your turf now you would probably know it because late last summer or early fall you would have seen first hand the damage they can do. If this damage didn't occur then, it won't happen this spring because grubs do very little damage in the spring compared to the late summer/fall. I hope this makes since, if not, do some more research on the life cycle of beetles/grubs and you will see what I mean.
  8. tjgray

    tjgray LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 294

    Evening All,

    My industry expert *husband* tells me that you are absolutely correct Cemars and told me to add that if there was a grub problem the grass wouldn't be yellow....he says more like a greyish color and if you reach down you can just about roll your grass up like carpet as it will have no roots.

    Of course he also says if the problem has gotten to this point then it is very serious.

    Just thought I might could share some helpful information and keep touhey33 from burning up his lawn :p
  9. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,969

    Damaging grub population densities will vary by species:

    "If you have on average more than 10 SMC (southern masked chafer) grubs or more than 5 M-JB (May-June beetle) grubs per square foot, then a chemical treatment is recommended. Remember, it is not unusual to have more than one species of white grub infesting the same lawn." - http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/pests/g07200.htm
    -Only one I could find quickly. Japanese beetle grubs are also about 10-15 per ft².

    So just finding grubs is not enough. You have to indentify the population density and the species, as noted in last paragraph of above doc, in order to make a real judgement on treatment. To determine species, you'll need a hand lens and be ready to be a butt reader. Positive grub ID: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2510.html.

    But if you're gonna get that detailed, you need to be aware of what happens when you try to ID the raster. Most any living animal, in a severe stress situation, will lose control of bowels and bladder. And trying to force the grub open to see the raster is a stress to him, so you will have grub poop obscuring the raster. Here's the answer to that: http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=329810&postcount=526.

    Customer (obviously rattled by the "giant maggot" she found): "We need to kill my grubs!"

    Jim: "Don't worry. That little guy won't eat that much."
  10. upidstay

    upidstay LawnSite Bronze Member
    from CT
    Messages: 1,564

    I like to judge pre-m app timing by soil temp. Your ag. ext station should be able to tell you about what that is for your area. Crabgrass doesn't germinate until about 55 degrees or so in the soil. It also ONLY germinates in sunny locales. So no need to apply pre-m under that big tree. Grubs pop up a bit in the spring, but I've found spring grub hatches are usually pretty minor. I like to put my grub preventative dow late spring-ish. (june here in CT) There is no set time, as Ma Nature can be a tad fickle at times. Go by degree days, again, call your local ag. ext station or university.Also, spring grub hatches are usually treated with a curative like Dylox, not a preventative,like Merit or Grub-X. It takes several weeks for the product to get into the grass plant where the critter will get to it. Also, pre-m or grub control together won't burn grass UNLESS BOTH ARE MIXED WITH FERTILIZER(or you put down to much). You can put both down, (as a granule, I'm assuming UR a homeowner) together if needed, as long as only one is mixed with fert. Double apps of fert usually means cooked lawn. Grub preventativeslike Grub-x work best when put down with fert. You might not be able to buy them mixed like that, so put them down with a fertilizer app. It is ok to get it into shrubbery beds, asthe active ingredient will help with bugs on shrubs too. Just be careful around vegetables. Hope this wasn't to much info!!

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