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Rate of Application

kirk1701

LawnSite Gold Member
Hi all, got a small question and kind of related to my other thread "New Fertilizer and weed control program" here:

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=304250

I picked up the CarpetMaker 16-4-8 with 0.43% Barricade today; 5 bags just to be sure I had enough since each bag should cover 5,000 SQ FT at the 1.5 Lb per/1000 as it says on the bag.

Here's my problem, there's the 1 Lb per/1000 which covers 7,200 SQ Ft and the 1.5 Lb per/1000 which covers 5,000 SQ FT. OK thats all fine and good but there is no info which tells me on the bag how long the 1 Lb/1000 will last Vs the 1.5 Lb per/1000

Now I'm looking at this link:
http://www.southernstates.com/articles/lg/growlikeapro/fertilizing.aspx

Near the bottom is a graph and to be honest I just now found this graph so my question was going to be how would I know what rate to apply to last 6 months. Now, a rate of 1.5 kind of looks a bit too much and should probably go with a rate of 1.25?

I will be applying somewhere between the two middle weeks in March when I see a good steady rain in the forecast that will soak it in nicely. I want it to last April - Beginning of September (Which is 5 months)

Or to be safe should I go with 1 Lb per/1000 just to be safe incase I do need to do some seeding come fall?

Side Note
As I've said before when going into Southern States know what your going for. I picked out what I needed, started looking at the label and asked the guy when he recomended it be applied. Now having already made up my mind from the other thread and you guys here he tells me late spring as thats what the label says :dizzy:
He then goes on to say apply after weeds are present ;)
 

ted putnam

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Arkansas
If I'm understanding you correctly, you need to go with your first instinct. Apply at the slightly reduced rate (1.25 pounds) Crabgrass germinates at different times depending on weather and location. Where I am it germinates around the first week of April. Barricade is a Pre-emergent(key word...PRE) It will not do you much good to apply POST germination. In my case it would be critical to apply prior to about the first week of April. In your case, you might be able to wait slightly longer since you are North of me. The nice thing about Prodiamine is you can adjust rates to effect longevity(to some degree). I think you are more on the right track than your salesman was and should adjust rate according to your situation and expectations for length of control with applying and making sure application is watered in prior to crabgrass germination being your goal. Hope this helps
 
OP
kirk1701

kirk1701

LawnSite Gold Member
If I'm understanding you correctly, you need to go with your first instinct. Apply at the slightly reduced rate (1.25 pounds) Crabgrass germinates at different times depending on weather and location. Where I am it germinates around the first week of April. Barricade is a Pre-emergent(key word...PRE) It will not do you much good to apply POST germination. In my case it would be critical to apply prior to about the first week of April. In your case, you might be able to wait slightly longer since you are North of me. The nice thing about Prodiamine is you can adjust rates to effect longevity(to some degree). I think you are more on the right track than your salesman was and should adjust rate according to your situation and expectations for length of control with applying and making sure application is watered in prior to crabgrass germination being your goal. Hope this helps
Thanks Ted, yep that helps and I might even apply sooner, like I said I'm playing the weather card so if come first weekend of march and I see the 7 day outlook with some good steady rain in the forecast I'd much rather it be down a bit too early then too late. Even if the grass is not greened up by then it wouldn't hurt. :)

And to add to this I looked back at my 2009 Lawn Maintenance and Diary; this just makes it all the more reason to do get it down mid-march :clapping:

March 30, 2009
Sprayed entire side (front yard) from fence to street and property line to first dogwood, also along street frontage and driveway with “Old Faithful” Spectracide Weed Stop® plus crabgrass killer to control crabgrass, mint and chick weeds coming up in new grass. Spot treated this area on March 22 but some weeds were either missed, are new or were unaffected.
• Mixed a little heaver then directions for spot treatment but not as heavy as directions for entire lawn treatment. (see Label) Mixed at 3 oz per gallon
• Was also applied same day grass was cut but weeds were not tall enough to see before grass was cut. Also 24 hours prior to rain but temps are in the 60’s for highs and 40’s for overnight lows which is within norms as per label.
Yes I keep good detailed records :drinkup:
 

RigglePLC

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Grand Rapids MI
Kirk,
I would go with the full rate 1.5 pounds of your product per thousand. That would give you .67 pounds of prodiamine per acre. About right for your area. You should go higher if you want to be sure--if the area has a history of crabgrass, --or if the grass is thin. Don't skimp. Hot, thin, short-cut sunny areas need the most product. You need a little less if thick, tall and shady.
 
OP
kirk1701

kirk1701

LawnSite Gold Member
Kirk,
I would go with the full rate 1.5 pounds of your product per thousand. That would give you .67 pounds of prodiamine per acre. About right for your area. You should go higher if you want to be sure--if the area has a history of crabgrass, --or if the grass is thin. Don't skimp. Hot, thin, short-cut sunny areas need the most product. You need a little less if thick, tall and shady.
Plan is not to repeat a lot of last years mistakes (just like last year I didn't repeat a lot of the mistakes from the year before). I started out in the spring cutting at 3" which was ok, didn't hurt anything but I did notice a yellowing when first cut.

Lawn is going to be thick, very thick so 3.5" to start out and by summer I'll be cutting at 4".

You might have missed my thread from the Renovation, aerating, seeding and spreading the compost last fall.
http://home.insightbb.com/~kirk1701/Lawn.htm

As for the rate Riggle, wish there was a PDF of this label, I might try to get close and take some sharp pics to post as like you said above Lb/per acre the label is also mentioning only not exactly adding up to your math.

Here's what I'm seeing:
349 Lbs/per acre = 8Lbs per/1000 = 1.5 Lbs/acre :dizzy:
 

CHARLES CUE

LawnSite Gold Member
Location
BURTON WV
If you put down 349 lbs per acre thats enough for 12 months down south. Are you in the transition zone it takes 185 lbs of fert per acre for 6 months of protection that 4.25 lbs per th. but if your in the north just put down 10 lbs less per acre or 4lbs per th
Charles Cue
 

ted putnam

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Arkansas
Of course, do what is right for your situation. There is nothing wrong with Riggle's recommendation of 1.5 pounds of AI/acre(That's the full rate). My suggestion was to go with 1.25pounds because you mentioned seeding in the Fall.
 
OP
kirk1701

kirk1701

LawnSite Gold Member
If you put down 349 lbs per acre thats enough for 12 months down south. Are you in the transition zone it takes 185 lbs of fert per acre for 6 months of protection that 4.25 lbs per th. but if your in the north just put down 10 lbs less per acre or 4lbs per th
Charles Cue
I'm in South Central Kentucky, Bowling Green is about 50 miles north of Nashville but don't know where the transition zone is?

I took some pic's this evening but didn't upload them here because I didn't want them compressed, should be able to see the text pretty well.
http://home.insightbb.com/~kirk1701/Pic1.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~kirk1701/Pic2.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~kirk1701/Pic3.jpg

I see what your saying about 349 Lb being enough for 12 months, Label using the term annually in Pic 2. I don't need that much down, half that is all I need 6 months is all.

Now if I'm following the label right, you sound like your right on target CHARLES you say 185 Lbs and pic 1 is saying 186 Lbs for 6 months. So since the label don't give a spreader setting for 0.80 Lbs; I'm looking at the next number down which is 233 Lbs which is for 7 months and will be 5.35 Lb/per 1000 (Gives me another month). Thats the same 1.00 in the spreader setting just below right.

I have a scotts Edgeguard spreader which is the same as the scotts speedy green 3000 so I can use the #8 Setting

Glad now I posted this and didn't go with the 1.5 Lbs/1000 :dizzy:
 
OP
kirk1701

kirk1701

LawnSite Gold Member
Of course, do what is right for your situation. There is nothing wrong with Riggle's recommendation of 1.5 pounds of AI/acre(That's the full rate). My suggestion was to go with 1.25pounds because you mentioned seeding in the Fall.
OK but like Charles pointed out, 185 lbs of fert per acre for 6 months of protection that 4.25 lbs per th

If I go 233 Lbs which is for 7 months and will be 5.35 Lb/per 1000 that will put me at 1.00 right?

And still have some room to play with seed late September and by Oct I usually don't have to worry about weeds but can plant grass right on up into December here. :drinkup:
 

ted putnam

LawnSite Fanatic
Location
Arkansas
I'm going to be honest here. It's late and I don't have my glasses handy and I can't read the labels you posted:laugh:. I'm 44 yrs old and my eyes went to **** right after I turned 40. Also, I treat southern turfgrass and 99% of the time I'm applying my pre-emergence with a skid in liquid form. Here's what I do know. Don't apply it after weeds are present. Any salesman that would suggest this with a pre-emergent is more than "not bright", he's a "Bonehead". Charles is right, you don't need 12 months control. The label of the Prodiamine that I use states that 1.5 pounds of AI per acre is a "full rate" which lasts approx 7 months. If you require less length of control, you can "dial" it down. You can also half the rate and do split apps. Rates vary according to mowing height,region/zone, etc... No apparatus is going to be 100% accurate and a push spreader is right in there with the rest, but if you're familiar with the piece of equipment you should be close. That's probably the best you can hope for anyway, is to be close.
 
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