Red max (seize or not)

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by bdemir, Nov 20, 2000.

  1. bdemir

    bdemir LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    Today my red max 6200 stopped working like it was out of gas and when we tried to start it after it was gassed up it did not start running again. We tried pulling it and realized that it was sort of rusty and rough on the pull. It was being used in heavy dirt laden areas and i fell it might of sucked in some dirt from the back. Also i remembered that my 2cycle mixture was probably too rich with gas ( too lean with oil). The engine doesent seem to have burned because it still pulls but it feels pretty hard to pull and a little scratchy inside. My question is how do i determine if its a blown or a siezed engine and is there anything i can do to get it rinning again or just replace the block. How can i tell if its a burned motor after taking it apart. Im new to taking things apart but these units are simple and a little help on where to start would help a lot.
    I would like to add that i did caheck the spark plug the airfilter and the carbon on the hole in the back.

    Thanks for replys.


    [Edited by bdemir on 11-21-2000 at 02:07 AM]
  2. Dave

    Dave LawnSite Senior Member
    from RI
    Messages: 315

    pull the muffler off to see if there is any scoring,if so you will need a piston,rings&jug
  3. Keith

    Keith LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,979

    I don't know wether you have any damage or not. I seized a piston on a BR400 one time. It was run 3 or 4 times over the course of about 20 minutes and stalled abruptly. When I tried to crank it, you couldn't even pull the rope. It was freakin locked! I then realized why, it had no oil! As I have stated, I run Amsoil and have for about 8 years. Well anyway, I tore the cylinder off and discovered the the piston and bore were stuck and smeeared, but not that bad. I figured the bottom end was trashed though. I went ahead and managed to get the cylinder to "release" the piston. I can't even rememeber how I did that :)

    I then found something amazing, the bottom end was still in good shape. I would just head over to the dealer and order a new piston, rings and cylinder. And then I priced it :mad: That stuff ain't cheap! I figured I would throw it out and buy a new one. But I went ahead and put is back together. I managed to "unstick" the rings with a screwdriver :) I put it back together with a little engine assembly lube and a new 50 cent base gasket. I fired up on the second pull. It ran good! It ran good for a year, until an unfortunate incedent with a trailer tire.
  4. bdemir

    bdemir LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    When i took of the mufller to look for carbon build up i did see some scoring. My next question is should i try rebuilding this little motor or just buy a new one. I am not too great with engines but am willing to try. Keith i also run amsoil and it sounds close to what mine did when it stalled abruptly. That amsoil seems to make you think you can get away without measuring. Now i should be a lesson to everyone.
    That blower is one season old and now it will turn but not start.

    [Edited by bdemir on 11-21-2000 at 02:27 AM]
  5. Keith

    Keith LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,979

    All I can tell you is to tear it down if it seems to have a big problem. If you see some light damage, or even if its more than a little consider doing what I did. That is if the parts are as high as I think they will be :) There's no harm in doing it if you think its boogered up. If it's trashed, its trashed. If not you may get it running again. But don't expect this advice from a dealer if you take it in. They will use new parts and that and the labor will probably be as much as a new blower. This is a do it yourself project :) The biggest trouble is trying to get the cylinder to slide down over the rings on the re-install. They are going to try to "squirt" out. It would be bst to have someone help you, in other words finds some more hands. It is pretty straight forward.

    But before you tear into it.... like I said before, mine was frozen. Try running it again first with a thick mix on the oil for a while, who knows it might work. Pour a little 2 cycle down the cylinder and turn it over a few time and let it sit.

    I brought up the Amsoil, because that is what I think saved it. Mine was run without oil at all. No missed measurement here. The residual oil is what kept it running for that length of time and made a 50 cent rebuild possible IMO Don't get excited, you can still goof up with Amsoil and be ok :)

    [Edited by Keith on 11-21-2000 at 02:56 AM]
  6. Vandora Lawn & Landscape

    Vandora Lawn & Landscape LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    Tip for MEASURING!!!!!!! Get one of those measuring containers for pesticide where you tilt into a seperate basin. Costs like 6 bux for a quart sized container. Great for holding oil. Just measure out what you need and only one bottle to carry.
  7. bdemir

    bdemir LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 610

    Keith mine was also run with very little oil from what the gas looked like.
    Mrs. Vandora i am going to use a measuring device from now on. Or just por a lot of oil in there make sure the gas is blue not pure white like it was. Funny though nothing happened to my other redmax blower and they both ran on the same gas but the 6200 runs through a lot of gas and gets very high rpms.

    Well I finally got it off and the pistons look a little scafed from both sides just looking in through the holes. I have not tore the engine apart yet. Now this will be fun.

    thanks for the replys.

    [Edited by bdemir on 11-21-2000 at 04:21 AM]
  8. Jeff in AL

    Jeff in AL LawnSite Senior Member
    from Alabama
    Messages: 789

    bdmir--and others,
    The engine can be "burned up" and still turn over.
    The reason it wont start is that there is not enough compression in the cyl. to run. The engine creates a pressure/vaccum when the piston moves up and down in the cyl., and this acts as a "fuel pump" to bring in a new charge of air/fuel. If the piston is scored, most of the time it will smear over the piston ring, and lock it to the piston. The piston ring should "float" on the piston and be able to expand to the sides of the cyl., to create the compression. If the ring(s) are smeard over they are not able to expand in the cyl.
    The correct way to fix this is to get a piston/cyl. kit.
    However like Keith said, most of the time the time it will be cheaper to buy a new unit, and save this one for parts.
    Call your dealer and get a price on the parts, and go from there, YOU can do the repair. The repair is not hard, just watch what your doing and look to see how it comes apart.
    The biggest mistakes are, not putting the piston on the rod in the right direction. The next would be not getting the circlips seated into the piston(one on each side or the piston, to lock the piston onto the wrist pin).

    NOTE: If there is scoring on the carburetor side of the piston, this is due to dirt injestion.
    If the scoring is on the muffler side of the piston, this is from running to hot.

    Hope this helps you out some.

    Jeff in AL.
  9. bdemir

    bdemir LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 610


    It looks like there is scoring from both sides.
    Thank you, for all the help.


    [Edited by bdemir on 11-21-2000 at 12:56 PM]

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