I have been doing this since 1997 fulltime, part time before that. As most I started with residential properties, the moved up to commercial/industrial, still have some residentials. At one point had 4 guys working (summer), six winter (alot of snow work). What I have run into lately is that the bottom is dropping out on pricing for the larger accounts. I can bid what I have been doing a $ 10,000 account for (with no increses for 6 yrs), & loose the account to a lower bid. Have called about it its not a quality issue, it's "stictly bugetary". It's to a point of in 2005 I had the four guys, this season it was me & 1 helper, & I allready lost one contract for next season (about $ 5000), & the account was not a money maker to boot. One week the cutting to me by myself 5hrs, montly billing for cutting was $450, cut weekly, that means I was working for probably less than min wage, went to a lower bidder, they can have it. I am going to start to get out of this market(commercial/Ind) one way or another & back to residentials (& solo). What have you found to be the most effective way to market (I spent $ 4000 last year with ADNET (local advertising paper & got vertually nothing to show for it). What point (house value) is the starting point, the housing market in our area the prices are some of the lowest in the country. Any other tips?