RWF, Inc.

Discussion in 'Original Pictures Forum' started by tthomass, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. tthomass

    tthomass LawnSite Gold Member
    from N. VA
    Messages: 3,498

    Two patios are being built. The one you see is basically finished. There are two entrances/exits coming out of the basement and this one is used less. Goal was to give a landing to eliminate the mud under the deck so we dry set 3-4" irregular flagstone.

    Picture 004.jpg

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    Picture 016.jpg
  2. Hollowellreid

    Hollowellreid LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 306

    When you wet lay bluestone I would assume you pour a concrete slab first? What does the cost get to be when doing that? Maybe we're just dealing with the wrong clientele, but most of them balk at the cost of dry laid bluestone as it is.

    anyways, looks good as usual.

    SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 763

    Question. what kind of base did you put under that stone. it looks like all you did was put down some screenings and put the stone on top. also, what did you fill the joints with? lastly, how are you going to retain the screenings on the border. do you have some type of edging planned? if i missed something let me know, i just am going off the last few pics.
  4. tthomass

    tthomass LawnSite Gold Member
    from N. VA
    Messages: 3,498

    The existing area sloped up to the door and we dug out the high side to level it out a bit while still pitching. The base is mostly the stone. I used, in this application, stone dust as merely a leveling agent and swept it with stone dust, packing the joints. The grade will be raised up to 2" below the stone surface. There is no issue with water run off (under deck) or edging restraints. Additionally, we're using a natural stone edge which isn't perfectly straight. Adding an actual edge restraint in a functional manner would just stand out.

    Before I hear something on the base, here's the deal. These stones are very much on 4" thick, not the traditional 1". This makes them much, much stronger. This also makes them much, much heavier. Some are over 300lbs and require (3) people or a Bobcat to move. I would say on average cover 8 SF + vs 2-4 SF. All this makes them very stable. They're heavy, they're not moving, and they're not breaking. The area the stone is set has been sitting there for 10yrs, its not settling. Additionally, if a 2 SF area of a stone did settle, the stone is so substantial, its not going anywhere. In another application we installed a compacted 21A/CR6 base as we built a much larger patio and in an unstable area. Just thought I'd explain but they're solid and not going anywhere.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  5. tthomass

    tthomass LawnSite Gold Member
    from N. VA
    Messages: 3,498

    Most people prefer wet and if they can't afford it will hold out or size down the project because most are afraid of it moving around. Honestly, I don't have a huge difference in dry and wet. Dry I would say is 30-35% less pending the application. You still have the excavation costs and time involved with prep prior to stone application in dry and wet settings. I prefer wet because I think dry is a pain in the butt sometimes to set where as wet lay I hit the stone a few times and its done.
  6. Swampy

    Swampy LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,435

    Sorry for back tracking a bit about the acid, I guess I'm really asking what is the before and after effect of using it? Does it "fade" the color of the stone? Also you don't use it on those preformed concrete blocks, pavers, and such?

    Off topic: My uncle asked me about planting a "moss" on outcropping to make it look like the stone has been there long time and aged. It was recently installed this year and to him its to clean. Any real ideas?

    Again I'm sorry if it seems like a stupid question. I got some more, I wish I could pick your brain on these from what I see about your work. It looks amazing.
  7. P.Services

    P.Services LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,319

    put down some high acidity soil and then soak it in cheap beer. one old lady swore by that. i havnt tried it yet. her patio looked amazing with the moss so i believe her advice.
  8. tthomass

    tthomass LawnSite Gold Member
    from N. VA
    Messages: 3,498

    When we finish doing the joints and the patio is "built" it has a chalky/milky look to it. We use sponges to clean the stones as we do the joints and rinse them in a bucket. The sponge soon is being "cleaned" with water that contains a highly diluted amount of mortar and while "cleaning" is applied over the face of the stone. The acid dissolves this thin surface layer and allows the stone to show its color much better.

    Yes, moss is a good application. You can do beer or buttermilk mixtures or just buy a flat of it and plant it. Look into a perennial called Thyme and another is Dwarf Mondo Grass.

    Yes, acid can be used on pavers but you would use a sprayer for an even application and helps bring out the color of the paver. On stone patios we just pour it straight from the jug, sweep it around, let it sit a little while and wash it off with water.
  9. PlatinumLandCon

    PlatinumLandCon LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,315

    Todd, as per the pics on pg 70, are you simply building that section of wall and thats it? Will you blend it into the slope at all? I'm not sure I follow the design of that.
  10. tthomass

    tthomass LawnSite Gold Member
    from N. VA
    Messages: 3,498

    Yes, that wall is just cut dry and simple. Straight as you see it. The slope goes up hill in the direction of the wall towards the Bobcat and the wall will taper into the grade. They don't use their backyard really due to the deck and the slope of the land. Prior to the wall it was pretty difficult to walk across the slope. Its steeper than appears (how cameras do that I don't know) as I remember both the customer and I slipping a bit walking across it in our first meeting. The idea of the wall is to only make the slope more gradual. He didn't care to really level the area but I think by the time we run a few courses he may decide to go higher.

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