Seed sown after herbicide

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by RigglePLC, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,920

    Purchased topsoil in 5 oz cups was treated with Lesco Razorburn (glyphosate plus diquat) or a 3-way herbicide (Ace ready-to-use), at intervals from 1 to 7 days previously. Perennial ryegrass seed was sprinkled on top. A pen cap measure was improvised. It held an average of 32 seeds. The cups are watered with rain water and held at 67 degrees in a west window. The four day treatment was omitted--not enough room.
    Results in the form of germination success--if any-- are expected on about January 22.

    Camera date chip failed--reset itself to date of manufacture--ignore that.

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  2. Hineline

    Hineline LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 779

    Will be interesting to see. I will add that I have done an initial seed watering with Gly as an experiment and had perfect germination. I have also sprayed regenerated bentgrass in lawns in the field with gly sprayed over the top of seed. No disruption of germination.
     
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  3. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,920

    What is regenerated bentgrass?
    Did you say the gly was sprayed on top of the seed? So you killed the present grass and replaced it with regenerated bentgrass?
    It is too early, not much results from the experiment--except a single seed of Mini-clover has sprouted on the six-days-after-gly treatment soil. A few Mini clover seeds were in the soil from an earlier test. The Mini-clover that had already sprouted was killed by the herbicide treatments, of course.
     
  4. Hineline

    Hineline LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 779

    Sorry if I did a poor job explaining what I did. I had sprayed out a lawn with glyphosate in advance of putting in a new lawn. The old lawn was mostly bentgrasses that had held on or muted over the past 100 years. The seeding was in early May and the soils were still quite cool that year so it was not germinating quickly. When I went to check on progress at one point I found some bentgrass that had started to regenerate from the initial gly spray. Since none of the seed had started germinating I resprayed the regenerated bentgrass right over the seed which then sprouted within a week.

    The best way to renovate an old lawn full of bentgrass and avoid any old bentgrasses from re-invading a new lawn would be to do an initial spray then let the lawn sit fallow for a month or so and re-spray any regenerated bentgrass. Bentgrasses can regenerate on the cellular level so some of it can survive an initial gly spray even though the top looks dead. Most homeowners don't want to wait 2 months to have a lawn again. This is a problem on old bentgrass lawns. Eventually it reappears and takes over a lawn again.
     
  5. Digitaria Sanguinalis

    Digitaria Sanguinalis LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 262


    A common practice for the warm season guys is to spray glyphosate every 10-14 days over a 6 week period and make sure to irrigate the area heavily in-between spray to stimulate any new growth that might develop between sprays. I'm not sure if you irrigated the Bentgrass but it could be beneficial for a faster total kill. You might try Tenacity as well on the bentgrass.
     
  6. Hineline

    Hineline LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 779

    Correct, after I spray roundup to kill the old lawn I ask the customer to water well beginning 24 hours after the spray then continuing for a few days. This encourages full translocation from an actively growing plant . I limit my Tenacity apps to just localized bent removal within an existing lawn. Generally on a complete renovation, I want any bentgrass to be as healthy as possible when the gly is sprayed. I have put off doing new lawns with customers that are suffering mid and late summer blight because I can't get the poison into the roots of blighted bentgrass. They are usually willing to wait until late the following spring

    How do you get that kind of patience from a customer? I've addressed it a few times and they all frown lol!
     
  7. Digitaria Sanguinalis

    Digitaria Sanguinalis LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    Honestly, it's an issue for me as well. I try to explain that if they want to totally eradicate the common Bermuda that is the only real option. However most choose the quick route of a sod cutter and live with the fact that the common Bermuda could and will return. We're lucky that I've never run into Bentgrass here in Oklahoma. I'm sure it's a pain. Dallisgrass, Nutsedge, and Kyllinga are the problem weeds that I battle year after year.
     
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  8. Hineline

    Hineline LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 779

    Invasive grasses are such a battle when it comes to a new lawn. I want to put a lawn that will sustain itself for years without any problems. When I take on a project on an old property that has a lot of bentgrass and they have irrigation, I have to explain to that property owner that the bentgrass may have been planted as the original lawn and it has always survived when the lawns have been redone. The irrigation system helps that happen. I plant a TTTF/KBG lawn that is more drought tolerant and take control of irrigation. It only gets irrigated heavily when it needs it and then the controller is shut off until it looks like it needs it again. Demand a 4 inch mowing height and train the property owner or his groundskeepers on using tenacity should the day come that it starts to reappear. One estate I did last year has a staff of 3 groundskeepers and they have been instructed to scout the lawn monthly and hand pull or cut any invasive grass they see. Eventually, I believe the battle can be won but it's my greatest challenge when replacing a lawn.
     
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  9. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,920

    I treated indoor pots of soil with glyphosate and 3-way--and planted seed at intervals.
    After a week Untreated Control was best at 11 sprouts; glyphosate with seed sown at 6 days after treatment was in second place with 10 sprouts.
    The three-way treatment results were indefinite.
    More results later.
     
  10. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,920

    Small pots were treated with either glyphosate with diquat (Lesco Razorburn) or a generic three-way. After intervals, perennial ryegrass was seeded. An improvised measure that contained about 32 seeds was used to sow the seed. After 19 days indoors in a window, the tallest sprouts were about 4.5 inches tall, (Untreated Control).
    Glyphosate results were variable; 6 days delay had the best germination.
    After application of a 3-way, 7 days delay had the most sprouts, but they were slightly misshapen or distorted.
    It appears it would be wise to wait at least a week before seeding. Outdoors the results might have been different. More sunlight--better drainage--more soil bacteria.

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