seed with crabgrass control

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by RigglePLC, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,808

    What do you think? What is your experience?
    Is is possible to seed (or overseed) a lawn and apply crabgrass control late enough for the seed to survive AND yet early enough for crabgrass control?
    In theory, there should be a skinny window between the time the newly seeded grass comes up and the date before crabgrass emerges. The manufacturers and universities will not talk about this--perhaps because--it is contrary to the label.
    For the liquid, it says something like: apply to turfgrass that is well established and has developed a good root system, good stand and has received at least two mowings.

    I could not find anything about seed on the label of the dry Dimension mixed with fertilizer, except it mentions use on "established lawns". How established? Is that a matter of opinion?

    I tried appying dry Dimension to containers of new grass at 23 days old. There was no injury. On the other hand, grass that was 7 days old and about 2 inches tall was injured. It was late summer. Moisture and soil temperature were nearly ideal for rapid germination.

    Clearly, ryegrass or tall fescue has a chance to be strong enough, but...Kentucky bluegrass is probably too slow, fine fescue I am not sure. Bermuda seed would not emerge till later of course.
  2. Yatt

    Yatt LawnSite Member
    Messages: 203

    Good post, I have wondered that very thing.:clapping:
  3. ReddensLawnCare

    ReddensLawnCare LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,651

    When i seed in the spring i use tupersan selective pre-em. Also doesn't cause and chemical root pruning like most pre emergents.
    On a side note riggle
    Why do you suppose it is hard to find a pre emergent with much if any phosphorus. P is supposed to make the roots develop and during the fall and spring that is actively taking place for fescue while soil temps are below 70. Most pre ems cause root pruning and it seems that p would offset the effects. However, in the summer when soil temps are closer to 72+ and root growth in fescue has all but ceased, you cannot purchase a fertilizer with out a substantial amount of p it seems
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  4. Jason Rose

    Jason Rose LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,858

    Tupersan is about your best option, or only option really. Disadvantage to it is the cost and the fact that it only lasts about a month. What I've done before is use tupersan at seeding and then maybe a second app of it in 30 days if the grass is slow coming along, and then after another month or so hit it with Dimension. We live in the "crabgrass belt" (aka transition zone) so typically still would end up with crabgrass galore. You can spray the crab that's germinated with Drive, but needs to be done at least twice to be effective. Best option here is to NEVER seed in the spring. However I've seen guys plant new lawns in April or May, seeded pretty heavy and have minimal crab issues. I must not be living right I guess.
  5. lawns Etc

    lawns Etc LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,277

    I know its against everyones beliefs but the Lawn Dr around here seeds in the spring and applies dimension after 2 weeks and he seems to have pretty good results with it. The owner says he's tested and it doesn't really hurt the grass that's already germinated. I mowed a few of his lawns and it seems to work.
  6. greenskeeper44

    greenskeeper44 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 433

    for that reason we do very little if any spring seeding....not only because of weed pressure but it only has a month or so before it gets hot and usually dies and you have to redo in fall....i beg people to wait till fall because it does so much better and they will be much happier in the end.....unfortunately some people think they are the deviation from the norm and it can be done successfully.
  7. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    The first Spring seed germination would be from Dormant Seeding of last Fall... Has anyone gotten any results from that yet???
    The real question is:
    When does CG germinate in YOUR area vs. the time that you get turf seed to germinate???

    The idea that we can never spiff up the winter kill in a lawn during the Spring time is a deal breaker... I would try it and see how it goes before I gice up and tell the h.o. he's stuck with thin bare spots for the summer, because I CAN'T do it...
    experiment, experiment and then experiment, in order that you may rise to the top of your field...

    I tried it and it worked... If I used pre-m it would go down around the first of June and be more effictive than the guys who put it down during the Spring rains... :)
  8. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,808

    No sign of germination of fall or winter seeded tests so far (except for the November seeded sample--which is about an inch tall). It is 36 degrees here at the moment.
    We expect crabgrass germination about late May or Early June, after dandelion bloom and about the time of the fourth mowing. Perhaps three weeks after last frost. Our last frost is about May 5th. Pardon me if I disagree with myself from time to time.
  9. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    This can be a high maintenance thing - but can be done with products like Tupersan or Drive. Applying a pre em like Dimension at 2 weeks is certainly going to affect the later half of germination like the 3rd week or so.
  10. lawn king

    lawn king LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,414

    Spring seeding is never a good plan! If you must do it, tupersan apps with drive post apps is the way to go here in the northeast. It all adds up to a lot of time and product costs, and that takes a big bite out of your profit margin!

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