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Seeking Help! Kokomo,IN lawn in Trouble

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by 1966vette, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. 1966vette

    1966vette LawnSite Member
    Messages: 209


    I need help with my lawn!

    I plan to over seed my 1 acre Kokomo, IN lawn this September.
    I’m seeking feedback on my Lawn Renovation Plan.
    Completed to date:

    1. September 2009 – Sprayed out Tall Fescue & Crabgrass.
    Tractor broke and the delay prevented me from over –seeding 2009.

    2. April 1st 2010 –Gently tilled the entire Acre
    Over-seeded ¾ acre lawn and new lawn ¼ acre with 125 pounds of:

    Cisco Premium Sod Blend
    $4.15 / lb
    Seed rate 130 / acre 25%
    Nu Destiny
    Compact midnight type
    Sudden Impact
    Compact midnight type
    Compact midnight type
    Compact midnight type
    Front Page
    Compact type

    3. April 23th 2010
    Applied started fertilizer
    KBG starts to germinate.
    Crabgrass started to show it ugly presence.

    4. April 30th 2010 - I applied an addition 50# of below seed in the needed bare area.
    Executive Sun Mix
    $3.08 / lb
    Seed rate 225 / acre 15%
    6.2 15%
    6.6 10%
    Compact-America Type

    6.2 20% Amazing GS
    6.8 20% Paragon GLR
    8.0 20% Apple GL

    This seed mix germinated quickly & the lawn showed signs of improvement.

    June 5th & 20th 2010
    Crabgrass started to take over my lawn at an unbelievable rate.
    Spot sprayed Weed-B-Gone w/ Crabgrass control.
    Results for Crabgrass: 1/3 of crabgrass died, 1/3 turned yellow and 1/3 showed no effect.
    Results for KBG: 1/5 died and the rest appears to be OK.

    July 18th 2010
    Lawn looks bad, too many bare spots & crabgrass has taken over 1/5 of the lawn.

    Get Well Plan:
    July 20th

    Mix Drive Quinclorac 75 & Generic Trimec & spray the entire acre in a last attempt to get control of the crabgrass.

    Sept. 1 2010 - Plug, fertilize and Over seed apply 100# of the Executive Sun Mix above:

    I wanted an elite KBG lawn but got disappointing results.
    Thus, I plan to go with the above mix to get the lawn looking better quickly.
    My wife is on me big time for excessive costs, too much labor & very poor results.

    I plan to apply Dimension in the spring.

  2. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,076

    I am not taking sides with your wife, but you should have done this in fall--no crabgrass problems. Or just used sod. This is all too common. Seeding of an elite Kentucky bluegrass mixture. Later going to a cheaper KBG plus ryegrass. Now--you have no choice. Late August or early Sept when temps come down to about 80, cut short; power rake if you can, to loosen soil and rip out a percentage of crabgrass; put down your seed; rake it into the soil. You have no alternative--you have to seed right through and on top of the crabgrass. Add starter fertilizer. Water every day for 30 days. As the grass seed slowly comes up the crabgrass goes to seed and then fades due to cold. When night temps hit 45, add additional fert. Crabgrass will fade and new grass will begin to gain strength (about an inch tall at this point, ryegrass 2 inches). Feed again in about 30 days, and 60 days.

    Remember that the crabgrass has deposited about 500 seeds per square foot for next spring. So...you need the maximum allowed rate of Dimension next year. If you think you are in the south--use the southern rate. Repeat the extra strength Dimension treatment about 6 weeks after the first treatment. You are trying for 12 weeks of crabgrass control. No guarantee--hope this helps. My opinion. Others will chime in.
  3. LawnSolutionsCP

    LawnSolutionsCP Sponsor
    Messages: 907

    Posted via Mobile Device
  4. LawnSolutionsCP

    LawnSolutionsCP Sponsor
    Messages: 907

    Rent one of our seeders in Indy.

    Power seed the first of Sept. Take pictures. You wife will be off your case. There are videos on our website.

    Timing has a lot to do with your success or lack of.

    Posted via Mobile Device
  5. 1966vette

    1966vette LawnSite Member
    Messages: 209

    Hello RigglePLC

    Thanks for the advice!
    I have a few follow-up questions:
    I missed the lawn seeding window last year because my ZTR when down for > 2 weeks.

    Should I apply the Drive & Trimec mix this week as planned?

    I’m seeking a weed free lawn during the seeding season.

    Seeding of an elite Kentucky bluegrass mixture. Later going to a cheaper KBG plus ryegrass.

    I was leaning towards the KBG Mix for the following reasons:

    1. Easier to get 1 acre of grass started – Ryegrass germinates in 7-10 days

    2. Watering an acre of grass w/ (3) faucets and 400 ft of hose is a major project.

    3. Seed cost was not a factor

    If seeding in the fall is significantly easier then the spring, I’m willing to try the elite KBG again!

    Why do you indicate that I have no choice? The wife has a say but it’s my project.

    I understand seeding through the top of the crabgrass, proper use of fertilizers & extra strength dimension spring 2011.

    Thanks Again!
  6. bigslick7878

    bigslick7878 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 809

    Is it reasonable to spot kill the crabgrass or is there too much at this point?

    If not what riggle said is the best thing you can do, just wait till fall and keep seeding until you have all the bare spots filled. The crabgrass will eventually die out when the first frost hits.

    I would try to do something about it now. You can spray all you want but the results will be the same, some will die, some will kind of die and some will not be affected at all.

    Crabgrass is a pain to get rid of, a lot of times you have to dig it out by hand or spot kill the affected areas. Obviously the pulling it by hand is out of the question with the size of the lawn, but the other option is the only other choice you have to eliminate it.
  7. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,076

    Perennial ryegrass germinates in 7 days--Kentucky bluegrass in 14 days (approx). Rye sometimes does better under less than optimal conditions. I understand why you had to do this in spring, equip broke, it happens. You have no choice, means that you will probably have to seed on top of crabgrass. Yes, I would apply the Trimec and Drive now, be sure to include the surfactant, (call a professional for best results). (At least get a quotation for the work). Crabgrass goes to seed about mid-July, then it turns a sort of purple-red color. And maybe brown if you spray it well with Drive. Rental of Lawn Solutions slit seeder is a great idea--this will help get the new seed through the crabgrass and down to the actual soil. Buy three battery-operated sprinkler timers. You should be able to operate two hoses from each giving you six 80-foot circles of water. Run the faucets in sequence not all at once to keep enough pressure from your house supply.
    I hope this works for you, Vette. Let us know what happens.
  8. cjoverma

    cjoverma LawnSite Member
    Messages: 75

    I am turfgrass science senior at Purdue and i own a lawn care company in lafayette... if you are wanting a nice lawn next year(or even this fall), this is not the time to save pennies (they will cost dollars later). I do very many of these renovations per year, i didnt read the entire thread so far, but i didnt hear anything about a soil test being done, i would start there, more than likely everything will check out ok, but for the $ its cheap insurance.

    then test results dependent, i would apply q-4 plus with surfactant (or hire somebody that is licensed to do this),the crabgrass will die or at least 90% or more will, once the crabgrass has died, mow it down VERY short,bag/rake or whatever you need to to remove the excess thatch, then aerify the crap out of your lawn(2-3 times when adequate moisture is present), thatch it 2-3 times until it is well "beat up".

    For this i would EVER SO VERY HIGHLY recommend the lawn solutions 24" slice seeders(they are amazing) , i have a 24" model and it is amazing !!! And for me to say that says a lot because i am a DIE HARD Z-spray (or anything LT Rich makes) fan, i love my z spray and so when the LS machine was demoed, it was with some heavy bias toward the z plugg (which i have used plenty, and with the seeder attachment),as in... i was just looking for one little thing that i could find wrong with the lawn solutions seeder and go back on my life with my LT Rich products, i love z sprays and LT Rich's top notch service, so for me to have said that, that speaks volumes of how impressed i am!! So more about the machine... it will to a degree smooth out the slight rough spots and open up your canopy enough to facilitate seed soil contact, which is vital.

    These machines are so user friendly and are made for dummies like me, they are easy to use, soooo productive (because you dont feel like you were hit with a dump truck at the end of the day of using the seeder, unlike any others). I will post pics on my review on them later this week, but they are so powerful that during a new lawn install with one, it actually cut several small fist sized rocks into 2-3 pieces! and had plenty of power to pull my 230 lb body up and down hills on a sulky, while still slicing thru that good ole' Indiana clay that we all love. Do not use any other machine!!

    Ok, back onto the renovation instructions....then just calibrate it, slice it two different ways (approx 30 degrees from another, NOT perpendicular!!) depending on soil test results again, apply around 1 to 1.25 # P/M to your lawn, and keep your soil/seed moist enough to take in water and breakdown the seed coat, but not enough water to saturate the lawn. Also do not water so that the turf, especially once it comes up will have water on it over night, very bad....

    I have done this same method several several times and have had amazing results, then follow up ever 3-4 weeks with approx 1.0 #/M of 50% WIN nitrogen fert, preferably with some micros too, do this until approx thanksgiving and on your last app, use urea (46-0-0) or an all mineral like 34-0-4, and your lawn will come up great the next year, if it goes dormant. However you must keep in mind that the elite low mow and dwarf culitvars of KBG are SLOW SLOW SLOW to establish...so be patient. If you have any more questions or comments to something that i might have said wrong or been unclear of, please just pm me and i will try to check it every other day or so. GOOD LUCK !!

    And to any other professionals that disagree with me, i am all ears to hear any suggestions that you might have, just don't bash me, bash my method, it works for me very well but im sure that it could be improved greatly, just takes trial and error. So if you could respectfully criticize my method and make suggestions, im all ears. ...

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