Skid Steer Questions.

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by AWJ Services, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. AWJ Services

    AWJ Services LawnSite Platinum Member
    from Ga
    Messages: 4,281

    I need a little help.I have been reading posts for hours and would like to try to clear up a few questions.I am in the market for a skidsteer and need some help deciding.
    1.I have heard that the ASV track system is giving alot of trouble and was told that Cat would be ditching it soon.This info from people involved with both skid steers at the dealer level.
    2.I need a skidsteer that will dig and grade exceptionally well.It must be able to take care of land clearing also.Not 18 inch trees but 4 to 6 inch stuff.
    3.I keep hearing a few issues about the NH LS 180 being underpowered.I have the chance to buy one reasonable.What are your thoughts.
    4.I need something that will pick up at least 2000 pounds.
    5.Can I do this with a tired loader are do I need to go to a track loader.

    I have a Kubota 3710 tractor with loader for the lighter stuff so this skidsteers size is really unimportant.I love the ASV ,but the rumors scare me.I am not really a brand person but I like the T series Bobcat also.
    Any help will be appreciated.
  2. TerraFirma Excavating

    TerraFirma Excavating LawnSite Member
    Messages: 163

    I started doing more and more land clearing last summer with my Bobcat 773T. Sizewise for clearing land it does adequate. I found that when trying to drive over fallen trees and brush, sometimes the tires just spin on the bark of the trees. Wet moss was also very slippery. I think a tracked machine would do better in these conditions. I am planning on getting some over the tire tracks for my machine. I would really like to get a T300, but can't justify the purchase at this time.

    If a smaller frame machine is not a necessity for tight work environments, I would go with a larger framed machine. The bigger engine with provide more power for digging and the longer wheelbase will provide a smoother ride over rough terrain.
  3. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Messages: 1,892

    1. I have no idea... Cat machines seem to be holding up well, even with ASV undercarriages. I wouldn't expect Cat to ditch the system, but who knows.

    2. I would actually recommend a Case for the situation. I felt that the 90XT is a bit back heavy when digging (not enough down pressure on the bucket), but it's still the machine I think is best up for the job. After that, I would put up the Bobcat S220, followed by the S250 and finally the Cat 252B or 262B. There's no particular reason I would put the Bobcat in front of the Cats; the Cats seemed to have pretty good balance -- tilting the bucket and digging actually took a good bite out of the ground, unlike the Case which *seemed* to just bounce around on top of it, never quite penetrating.

    TerraFirma brings up a better point, however -- as you appear to be working in loose dirt, you'd probably be better off with a tracked machine. Lower flotation and a smoother ride mean you'll grade much, much easier; in this case, I'd suggest the Cat 277B or 267B followed by the Bobcat T300. The 277B and 267B are simply easier on the operator. Take a look at some of Green Pasture's posts.

    3. NH tends to be doggy when it comes to brute power. Believe they're changing that in their Ls185.B and Ls190.B by a little bit. Not sure how they will hold up in that abuse, but to each his own -- no harm in giving it a shot. (Ls190 are NOT lacking in power by any means. Stiff controls, but not powerless.)

    4. Okay... all of the models I mentioned above have ROCs greater than 2000 pounds. To be safe, counterweights may be helpful in your situation IF you get a wheeled machine.

    5. If the ground conditions are rocky, you'll eat up your tracks pretty quickly -- although, I guess, at the same time you'll be avoiding flats. It's a trade off in that situation. Tracks are best in mud and loose dirt as they can still grip and not have to spin in the dirt (creating ruts). They are also better grading machines as they have the ability to keep their entire track on the ground -- and especially with Cat/ASV design, absorb small descreptancies in the ground rather than bounce over it.
  4. AWJ Services

    AWJ Services LawnSite Platinum Member
    from Ga
    Messages: 4,281

    I appreciate the reply's .
    Most of the work will be in the Atlanta area and we are known for concrete hard clay in the summer and need deep muck in the spring and winter.South of Atlanta the soil gets alittle sandy but still has alot of clay.I have an older 751 bobcat that will not dig at all.My Kubota does a better job and that is what I won't to get away from.
    I enjoy doing retaing walls and sometimes I have to dig banks of dirt back then build the walls.I did one that was close to 6 feet tall and I moved it back close to 10 feet in one spot.Had to use my 3 point backhoe to dig with then the tractor to move the dirt.What a pain.

    I was told that if you run the ASV on a hill sideways the tracks can run off and ASV will not warrant any damage from this.So if you were doing a sloped yard and was moving the machine sideways instead of up and down it would damage the machine.
  5. radix2

    radix2 LawnSite Member
    Messages: 5

    nonsense. Did you read this article referenced on the ASV thread ?

    Go read the warranty and recomended use of Bobcat or Taguechi track machines and compare that with ASV/Cat.

    what you will find is that ASV/Cat has no problem with use on pavement or any sensible surfaces vs. the others with the embedded steel track systems.

    As to the side hill question - in the operating manual for a ASV 2810 (same track system used on big cats and ASV machines) the side hill limit is 3:1 !!! and that is based on stability of course.
  6. AWJ Services

    AWJ Services LawnSite Platinum Member
    from Ga
    Messages: 4,281

    All my info is from one of the largest Cat dealers in Atlanta and also from a big ASV dealer.This info from the Technicians not the Salesman.The ASV is awesome.I demoed one and love it.After hearing the rumors it scared me too death.The sales rep took the ASV and went up at least a 50 degree bank and turned the thing half way up and came back down.I was a signature away from the ASV till I talked to these guys.I would hate to spend 40 grand and have a money pit.Thanks for the info and I really apreciate it.

    UNISCAPER LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,426

    Our team was at a Cat MTL training seminar this afternoon. One of two things are going to happen. ASV will be absorbed by Cat and be no more. Cat will continue to play with the MTL undercarraige. There is talk of steel tracks at some point, which, I cannot wait until they have a set.

    The vast majority of the track problems from all loaders is not knowing thier capabilities and limitations, either from proper application, or improper usage, improper maintenance, or just being plain lazy.
  8. Green Pastures

    Green Pastures LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,457

    Or a combination of all of the above.

    This is SO true. Everybody that I'm talking to that's owned an ASV or Bobcat or a Cat with tracks for some time say's it was a learning curve. You have to know how to take care of the tracks, what they can do and what you cannot do.

    I've seen 1 Cat machine with (I believe IIRC) well over 2000 hours on the original tracks and they looked really good. The owner say's he just keeps them clean. Using the machine for mostly finish grading.

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