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Smoking Kohler 20hp mag

Discussion in 'Mechanic and Repair' started by Louisianagames, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. Louisianagames

    Louisianagames LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    Just curios if I can pull the head (wich I can ):weightlifter: and send the heads and have new guides put in .
  2. Bill Kapaun

    Bill Kapaun LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 963

    OK, the full quote from my advice----
    "I suggest you download the service manual and study it a bit before you start-"

    You can try, but since the guides aren't in the head, you may subject yourself to an embarrassing experience at the machine shop!:)
    Look at page 79 in the manual!
  3. Louisianagames

    Louisianagames LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    I did page 79 is the electrical section :nono:

    I'm on Page 93 Section 9. Dissassembly.
  4. Bill Kapaun

    Bill Kapaun LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 963

    I was looking at the vertical manual. My mistake. I won't bother you anymore!
  5. Louisianagames

    Louisianagames LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    No bother at all.. I'm here to learn.
    I have good engine knowledge..just not on a kohler :hammerhead: or some smaller engines.

    Any input is great!
    From what I see in the manual I call a barrel/jug the head..This is where I thought it was located..
    I can get the head and jug off no problem. plenty of room.
  6. Eric D

    Eric D LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 295


    First off, Bill Kapaun has given you all you should need to trouble shoot the issues. Putting the :nono: in to a reply back to Bill after helping you is taken as an insult, at least to me it is. Nontheless, I'll try to give you a little more advise and see what you do with it.

    First and far most you should apologize to Bill.

    You seem to be focused on valve guides, why? From the information you have left in previous postings I believe you are barking up the wrong tree.

    More then likely the primary path for oil getting into the combustion chamber is passed the piston rings. You mentioned that the compression was 100 psi. What type of compression test did you run? Was it a motoring test or differential? If it was a motoring test, 100 psi is low. You also mentioned that you could feel air out the breather. Was this with the engine running or motoring or when you did the compression test? Air out the breather vent normally indicates leakage past the piston rings. Bottom line, from way out here in web world, best guess would be worn piston rings.

    Your options,
    1. do nothing and use the mower with the smoke
    2. replace the piston rings and hone the cylinder walls (this is assuming the piston and cylinder are ok)
    3. add heaver grade engine oil (40 or 50).

    Best of luck,

    Eric D
  7. Louisianagames

    Louisianagames LawnSite Member
    Messages: 16

    Bill accept My appologies as not intended as a flame just a correction and a little smiley guy saying no.*trucewhiteflag*

    Eric D thanks for the push in the directiion of the rings.
    The only reason I'm so curious of the valve guide, is that I can look in and see the valve is gummed up with oil. I was trying to prepair Myself with what steps to get the guides to the correct facillity and have them replaced, or can I do iy Myself.

    I'll pull it down and inspect it. If I get confused, I'll post a picture and hope I'll stay on the right track to getting the smoke out My eyes..:dizzy:

    Thanks guys,
    You Rock!
  8. Bill Kapaun

    Bill Kapaun LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 963

    Everything is cool!:)
  9. Restrorob

    Restrorob LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,029

    *crickets chirping*


    Bill and Eric have steered you in the right direction.....

    This is the only thing I'd like to add;

    Seeing this is considered normal on a engine burning excessive oil due to worn rings, It does not mean the valve guides are worn/bad.

    Once you get the valve springs removed you can check how bad the valves rock side to side in the guides, If it is excessive then replace them but not because of the oil/carbon build-up.

    Just a pointer on re-sealing the cylinder jug to the block;

    I use nothing but Loctite gasket eliminator for ANY non-gasket sealing surfaces. I do not apply a bead but apply a thin coat over the whole surface area applying to my finger first then smooth evenly.

    Doing this assures ME that I WILL get a good leak free seal.
    In a job shop there's nothing worse than having to do a job twice.

    Good Luck with your repair.....
  10. Bill Kapaun

    Bill Kapaun LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 963

    "The only reason I'm so curious of the valve guide, is that I can look in and see the valve is gummed up with oil."

    Which valve? Intake or exhaust?
    If exhaust, more likely rings.
    If intake, especially down the stem, maybe the guide and/or the seal is shot. On "old" engines, the seals tend to go bad from age/use. IMO, a likely "contributor" to the oil burning. How much?????
    I'd hate to see you spend a bunch of money for valve work, it the cylinder needs to be bored etc.
    Since you have the heads & cylinders off, I'd mic the cylinder for wear, ovalness, taper etc..
    See what you have in the "important" (expensive) area first.
    Even if it can get by with new rings, I know I'd probably want to put "fresh" bearings in it too.
    Valves & guides can get expensive, especially if you have to have them done.

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