So no 10w40 for Vanguards, wander why?

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing Equipment' started by ARN Greencare, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 146

    I see what you're saying, and agree to an extent. But if I got oil in my engine, and it is a while before it is due for a change, I am not going to change it cause a cold snap hits for three or four days. And yes, where I live it can happen, which is why 10w40 has been a choice of mine for so long.
     
  2. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 146

    What makes synthetics so much better?

    And I use one of my mowers for leaf clean up and mowing during summer, so that little jewel has got to be on the move pretty much year around, hot and cold days.
     
  3. Ridin' Green

    Ridin' Green LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Michigan
    Messages: 20,742

    Trust me, it gets cold here in MI.
     
  4. weeze

    weeze LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 15,195

    lots of things. the additives in synthetic oils are better and hold up longer. if you change the oil every 50hrs it doesn't matter too much though in a mower engine....but if you wait 100hrs you will have better protection with the synthetic oil compared to the conventional oil during the last 50hrs before you change the oil again. how much difference does it make? no one knows for sure.

    one thing for sure is the synthetic oil starts flowing better then conventional oil...especially in colder weather like during the late fall/early winter. 15w50 is a good weight of oil because you can use it all year long. in the heat and in the cold. that is only available in synthetic. one weight of oil to use all year long.

    conventional has 20w50 but there are times i've mowed leaves and it was 29F which is too cold for that weight of oil. 20w50 is only good down to 32F. 15w50 goes all the way down to 20F. they both go up to like 125F or something like that.

    it's just science. synthetics are better. that's why they cost more. now is it gonna make a huge difference on a mower engine? probably not too much but it certainly isn't gonna hurt anything. i mean i don't wanna run 10w30 in the cooler months and 20w50 in the summer months. i'd rather run one oil weight all season long that covers all temps.

    you don't have to use synthetic. if you use conventional it's a good idea to change the oil more often though. right now i use kawi oil 10w40 in my kawi and kohler engines. it's a semi-synthetic oil. even that is better than a conventional oil. i would use full synthetic but kawi doesn't make that. i did use mobil 1 15w50 for a long time which is synthetic. mower engines tend to burn off more oil when using that though for some reason compared to kawi oil so that's why i made the switch. i haven't tried the vanguard 15w50 synthetic but if i had a vanguard engine i would use it for sure. i wouldn't be against using it in my kawi or kohler either.

    here's a couple of videos to help show the difference:

     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  5. StanWilhite

    StanWilhite LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,544

    :)
     
  6. Eric502

    Eric502 LawnSite Senior Member
    Male, from Kentucky
    Messages: 755

    FWIW.... My VanG 37 efi was ran on valvoline racing 10w-30 conventional oil (for the zddp percentages) up until 100 hours. This season it is getting amsoil premium 20w-50. I was VERY close to putting in the amsoil small engine 10w-40, and I did put it in my kohler.

    It is my opinion based on many, many sources of information I have read throughout the years that synthetic is by far superior to conventional. However that does not mean conventional is suited for everyone. It suits me to use synthetic for the hours I put on mowers per season. Someone else you has way more mowers and that puts more hours per season on them and thus mowers are traded for newer mowers more frequently.... the use of synthetics may not make sense. Especially if they are going oil changes every 2 weeks.
     
    ARN Greencare likes this.
  7. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 146

    Regularly serviced conventional oil is better for your engine than longer oil change intervals of any synthetic. Oil analysis will bear me out on that. Combustion causes oil to become acidic over time which accelerates the aging of your seals and promotes corrosion. Also there is moisture contamination, fuel dilution, dust, metal particles, all occuring during the usage of your engine, and there is no cure for any of this other than changing your oil.

    Synthetics also have a lower film strength rating than conventional oils unless the manufacture uses really expensive lubricant packages and friction modifiers. Castrol, Valvoline, even Oreily house brand multi viscosity conventional oils all tested consistently 90,000 PSI or more. Standard Amsoil usually tests under 80,000 PSI unless you buy their signature stuff, and I don't think Royal Purple even has an oil that exceeds 80,000 PSI.

    This is why I never bought into the Synthetic hype. The advertisements are out there, but the real world numbers just aren't.

    I AM NOT BASHING PEOPLE THAT USE SYNTHETICS OR PROMOTE THEM!
    People simply do the best they can with the knowledge they posses, and that is what we all do.

    Here's a link to some PSI ratings BTW to those interested.
    https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3162221
     
  8. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 146

    You might want to stick to your conventional VR 10w30 oil. Go to post #37 and click the link I provided. You will find that it has a higher film strength than anything Amsoil has ever made, and even higher than Valvoline's own synthetic racing oil.
     
  9. rippinryno

    rippinryno LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,015

    Incorrect. An oil filter with cure dust, particles, and contamination. Moisture does not stay in oil very long if you are running your motors. It is 100% incorrect to state that conventional oil is better than longer oil change intervals of synthetic. The proven fact is that modern synthetics can run better lubrication for longer periods of time than conventional. THere is really no argument against that unless you ignore all things oil.

    Plenty of synthetics, including mobil 1 well over the 100,000 mark.

    This is why I never bought into the Synthetic hype. The advertisements are out there, but the real world numbers just aren't.

    I AM NOT BASHING PEOPLE THAT USE SYNTHETICS OR PROMOTE THEM!
    People simply do the best they can with the knowledge they posses, and that is what we all do.

    Here's a link to some PSI ratings BTW to those interested.
    https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3162221[/QUOTE]
     
  10. ARN Greencare

    ARN Greencare LawnSite Member
    Messages: 146

    [/QUOTE]


    Ever see an oil analysis? If so, you might remember some numbers next to items like iron, aluminum, lead, copper, etc. These reflect how much metal is in the oil, not withstanding the filter you mention, it is in there. Also in there you will see silica, this interpreted is dust/dirt/sand content. Why do you think the owners manual says to change oil more regularly in dusty condtions? A good example of dusty conditions is our mowers type of usage. And yes, you can find moisture in there too, especially in cool climates.

    Read a few oil analysis', you will be enlightened. And if you think you can keep running oil to the point that these foreign material saturate the layer of oil film between moving parts without creating problems, you are mistaken. Especially when taking into consideration the PH taking a toll on parts.

    And I never said synthetics did not have a 100,000+ PSI rating, but it takes alot more additives to get them there. Go check the link I sent you. The second highest PSI rating on the list was a conventional oil. And the top ten percent of the list was filled with conventionals that cost less than half of alot of there synthetic counter parts. Alot of highly touted names fell far below even Oreily's house brand of oil, even names such as Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Mobil, among many others. There were scores of name brand synthetics that couldn't match even some cheaper conventionals.

    Am I bashing people for running syntetics? By no means. But if you're gonna call me out, then back it up, not with your opinion, but with some info and numbers. And here is some info from Blackstone about oil change intervals. You can learn a thing or two if you take the time to read. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-...13-07-01-How-Often-Should-I-Change-My-Oil.pdf

    Here is a wealth of info, I highly recommend reading the reports of the month.https://www.blackstone-labs.com/information/newsletters/
     

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