Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by ron mexico75, May 8, 2013.

  1. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,810

    Quinclorac (otherwise known as Drive) is the product that attacks the crabgrass.
    The proper way to do this is to calculate the cost per thousand square feet. Remember it is rather low in cost to add your own Trimec to a quinclorac (Drive) product if you really think you need a grass plus broadleaf product.
    For instance at max rate you need .478 ounces per 1000 sqft of Solitaire.
    Your max mix rate for Q-4 is 3 oz per 1000 sqft.
    Find your cost per ounce and then find your cost per thousand sqft, for each.

    My own opinion is to have a separate hand sprayer for crabgrass and a separate back pack or hand sprayer for broadleaves.
    Still waiting for someone to invent a two way sprayer for that critical season of crab plus summer weeds. Duct tape is allowed.
  2. ron mexico75

    ron mexico75 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,054

    Thanks for posting. So, if the Quinclorac is the chem that attacks the crabgrass, why are several people saying the Q4 works better when it has seven times less Quinclorac than Solitaire?

    I'm just getting frustrated because I seem to be going back and forth. I just want something that is going to work good and I don't want to waste money. I originally was going to get drive and mix it with speedzone. However that might be a waste of money if it's 80% crabgrass 20% broadleaf In Late June and early August at the time of spraying.

    I hear your idea about using two separate sprayers to keep from wasting product that would be a headache to having to go back to areas and spray them with a separate product. I'm not walking properties holding two separate sprayers, I need a backpack. It would be too hard to remember where broadleaf weeds were in order to go to the truck grab the hand sprayer and then go back and hit them.
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  3. greenskeeper44

    greenskeeper44 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 434

    your wrong on your percentages......they have almost identical amounts of quinclorac

    solitaire/1000 .467 x .5625= .262ai

    q4/1000 3oz x .0843= .259ai

    my belief is gordons has included mso or some other type of adjuvant that solitaire does not include......

    I have tried the seperate spray cans but then it gets annoying having to go over the yard several times with different sprayers because there is always sedges, spurge, and crab in places....theres never just one type of weed
  4. ron mexico75

    ron mexico75 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,054

    Hmm, I'm not arguing with you, but the labels say the product % for Q4 has 8.43% Quinclorac and the label for Solitaire says it has 56.25%. Where are they getting those numbers to make it seem like their is 7 times more in the Solitaire? Is it just by volume and because one is a liquid versus powder its different?


    Solitaire: Herbicide 05-09-11R Comm1.pdf
  5. greenskeeper44

    greenskeeper44 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 434

    I'm not either.....its 8%ai and 56%ai for the whole container..........the rates per 1000ft2 are completely different for each product.... solitaire is a granular product and q4 is a if you multiply the rates/1000 for each product by the percentage of AI then you get the close to the same amount of AI per 1000 ft2.....the math in the above post is showing that.
  6. greenskeeper44

    greenskeeper44 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 434

    also with both products your not going to get very good control with crabgrass once it gets past the 4-5 tiller works good when its young and when its mature......for some reason it doesn't work well in between those stages so its best to catch it early...q4 did a much better job on spurge and oxalis broadleaf weeds than the solitaire...probably because q4 contains 24d and dicamba where as the soilitaire only contains sulfentrazone...we went through about 20 containers of solitaire last year.....does amazing on sedges quick burn down and lasting control....broadleaf and crab was where it did not impress me...hope it helps.
  7. ron mexico75

    ron mexico75 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,054

    Thank you for explaining that, I appreciate the help.

    So what would you use for late June and earlyt August apps?

    I generally run into crab, some foxtail, signal grass, maybe some barnyard and a few other various broadleaves. Not too many though. I just want to have something that kills them in case they are growing I don't have to come back.
  8. ron mexico75

    ron mexico75 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,054

    Sorry, just saw this post after I already responded.
  9. greenskeeper44

    greenskeeper44 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 434

    on our 4th round which is late June to mid aug we used solitaire last year because we got a discount if we pre ordered a bunch....was displeased with the crab and broadleaf results so we switched to q4 when we ran out and it seemed to do a much better job but it could of been because we were treating the crab at a later stage.
  10. ron mexico75

    ron mexico75 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,054

    well, maybe then I will just stick with the Q4. The Drive XLR8 has peaked my interest. But again, it doesn't treat as many different things as I'd like. I like the "one shot one kill" motto. I also figure whatever crab the Q4 doesn't kill, it usually subsides once the cooler nights start occuring in later September.

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