Lawn Care Forum banner
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Input from guys who have been there. I have been in the lawn business full time for 3 years. Have around 55 full service account lawn care , hedges , flowers all things in the yard, i also have my class 5 applicator license. I mostly work by myself. Question, have a opportunity to do all work for our utility company. Would need to have a separate mowing crew. Is it really worth the headache. Making a good living working solo, not much time off.

What about solo?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,356 Posts
Input from guys who have been there. I have been in the lawn business full time for 3 years. Have around 55 full service account lawn care , hedges , flowers all things in the yard, i also have my class 5 applicator license. I mostly work by myself. Question, have a opportunity to do all work for our utility company. Would need to have a separate mowing crew. Is it really worth the headache. Making a good living working solo, not much time off.

What about solo?
yes you are doing good solo, but how long can you keep up the pace, yes employee's can be a pain but they make it a lot easier.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,438 Posts
It is also next to impossible to find a good employee, and most will beat on your equipment, cause they dont own it, and could care less about hitting a huge brick or running over large branches and things. It is hard to find employees in this industry because they know they will get laid off every winter, and good luck keeping them for the next season! And many people today are very lazy and do not want to work out in the heat and humidity or have trouble getting out of bed before noon! It is very hard to keep your quality up there when you use employees, unless you pay $15. per hour and get the quality helpers. I am reaching this point too, I am for the most part solo, but I am about at my limit to that amount I can service reliably every week. Maybe semi retired people might be the type to shoot for? I know guys in their early 20s or late teens are not a good idea. Who else is there then?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,768 Posts
If you can find and retain good employees they can make you some money, if not your world will be a living hell, IMO. After trying to run a helper with me and two on another truck I was loosing more than I was making, but I will be the first to admit I am not the best business man. Remember that if you are paying someone 10 a hour it is really costing you about 15 per hour for that person by the time you pay workmans comp and the 7.5% [or whatever it is] of the social security tax. If you know your numbers and can get help that actually show up and bring in more than you pay them than you can make more money. Also remember that you have to have the payroll funds even if it is taking 30, 45, ect....... days for you to get your money from clients. After the headache and grief of doing my jobs and going back and touching up or finishing up theirs, I went back to solo in 08.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,438 Posts
The problem is when you start getting more work, but you could always just be really picky about the accounts you do and everytime you pick up a good one, let a crappy one go. You can make a damn good living being solo, but the most accounts you will have is around 80 to 90, that is about all one guy can handle on his own. Or you could hire some high school kid for short times when your slammed and lay him off until you need him again. Some younger kids like to work like that.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
and workman's comp, more insurance, more equipment, more vehicles, trailers, making payroll etc...What happens if you loose the utility company? Why screw up a good thing?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
If you are solo and enjoy just being solo then that is that and no one will probably convince you otherwise.'

But look at it this way: If you are solo, going to work for yourself each day what do you really own? A business?

Not really you own a job.

Say one day you get hurt in an accident, you can no longer work for yourself. What is your strategy then, do you have millions put away for an early retirement? Could you then all the sudden while dealing with this crisis switch everything over to employees and have it be a success? Not likely.

Do you really think that in the early days of any major company that has found success, such as some of the large LCO's, restaurants, gas stations, hardware store, grocery stores, investment groups, grocery stores,.... you name it (even the big time national companies); that that owner did not think "man employees can be a pain, maybe I should just stay all day and get the work done the way I want it".

The question you should ask yourself is do I want to work for my business, or do I want it to work for me?

I know your thinking at this point what is this idiot rambling about, and that is fine I am just trying to help.

If you choose to keep it solo, then you really need to plan for the future and get an exit strategy for your business.

If you choose to hire employees, then you really need to plan for the future and get an exit strategy for your business.

I know already the toll that this work is putting on my body: exhaust fumes inhaled daily, carpal tunnel, heavy lifting, loud machinery, .............. I ask myself is this what I want to be doing when I am 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75 ..........

I have a friend who has had decent success, in this business always had the solo work he needed. Due to one health crisis or other problems he is now 65, and this is all he has. Says he'll have to do this till the day he dies, and with this work and his health that may be sooner than he or his wife would like, then what does he leave her with?

I guess I entered this business not because I wanted to mow lawns for the rest of my life, but because I wanted to build something. I want to have good clients and crews to do the heavy stuff. I want to continue to build relationships with clients and build something worthwhile, but how can I do that if I am always the guy behind the mower.

SURE employees can and are a major headache, EVERY COMPANY in the world that has employees has this same problem. The big problem is that you cannot by yourself build something large enough to sustain itself. Employees become the necessary evil.

Now there are plenty of things you can do to reduce (did not say eliminate) employee problems.

Again in the end it all comes down to do you want to work for your company or have it work for you?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,438 Posts
Well, maybe it would be a good idea to look at how Brickman got to be so big and try to follow their business plan, then when you are older, you can sit back and collect all the checks rolling in from your beach house in Palm Springs! Or while you are young and making good money, start putting money into a IRA or other investment so you can fall back on it when the time comes. My goal is to pay off everything I have, house, truck, equipment, any other bills. then I will just have utilities and general daily needs type stuff.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
its hard to say i like being solo but its nice to have someone help you, i have a full time guy and its nice, just sucks they cost you more money, if it were me stay solo
 

· Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Great great input.
All the input is right, i work 7 days a week 12 hours a day from March to about Nov . I have never advertised, got all my accounts from people seeing my work and them not liking hiring someone and someone else doing the work. My big concern is work quality with employees and what the customer will think when i no longer do the work. All of my accounts pay great and never complain about price. Most of the mowing prices are $50.00 per yard, I am usually around $10.00 higher than most people in my area.

Losing sleep over the decision!
Thanks!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,646 Posts
Listen.

I will straight shoot from someone that's been in business for 21 years now. Solo for 6, then 5-7 guys for 4, then solo again for 9 until I broke my foot, then 2 guys for 2 years, and now going back to solo. I'll break down the history of it all for you.

After you read this post, read the one from ProCut on "how to fail in this business from someone who has".

The margins are no longer there to run too many crews.

Everyone talks about how you're going to be big like Brickman, but then complains about how cheap Brickman is.

I was solo for 6 years, then started to hire. I hired a guy, then 2, and before I knew it I had 7 guys working for me and absolutely hated it. I was losing money left and right because the guys were screwing everything up.

I did that for 2 seasons, then year #10 I went back to being solo. I picked the best 40 accounts I had, put them all on a flat fee and made money hand over fist.

I did that for another 9 years, and broke my foot. Here's where it I thought I had everything figured out. I had contracts on all of my accounts, so we were getting paid whether it rained or not, whether the irrigation was turned on or not, whether it snowed or not, I got money.

I had 2 GREAT guys, or so I thought. One was 18, fast hard worker, but didn't care too much about quality. The other was 45 and exact on quality, but was a little slow. I figured they could balance each other out, but in fact they drew apart to the point where they wouldn't even talk to each other anymore.

This last winter I ended up having both quit. The older one couldn't take the cockyness of the 18 year old, and the 18 year old left to go to work at a small town's public works for $7 / hour less, but is paid benefits.

I was paying my guys $17 / hour.

I'm going back to solo. I cannot handle the random dents in the trucks. The "hey, where's the third trimmer?", the "yeah, hey, I know it's Thursday and it rained Monday and Tuesday, but do you think I can have Friday off because the gf has it off and we'd really like to go to the lake?".

You can plan for all of the wages expenses, the increase in insurance expenses, the additional fuel, maintenance, machine expenses.

What you cannot plan for is the addition "stupid" expenses, replacing a lost piece of equipment, fixing a dent in a tailgate, fixing a broken window, etc.

Don't listen to the people that say if you're running solo, you're not running a business.

From Wikipedia....

"A business (also called a company, enterprise or firm) is a legally recognized organization designed to provide goods and/or services to consumers.[1] Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies, most being privately owned and formed to earn profit that will increase the wealth of its owners and grow the business itself. The owners and operators of a business have as one of their main objectives the receipt or generation of a financial return in exchange for work and acceptance of risk. Notable exceptions include cooperative enterprises and state-owned enterprises. Businesses can also be formed not-for-profit or be state-owned."

No where does it say anything about having to have employees to be a business. If you're doing a service for someone, receiving compensation, you're a business.

If you're comfortable with growing a business and being an HR person, which, IMO, would mean that you still have a JOB that you have to do, the head of True Green Chemlawn has to go to his JOB, the head of Brickman has to go to his JOB, you're just running a BUSINESS where your comfort level rests.

I don't see the profit margins being there to run 2-3 crews right now. If you get national large, like Brickman, Scotts, etc., don't you think there's the next level of companies like USM, or others that are going to knock .001 / 1000 sq ft off of each bid so they in turn can show they can save Kohls, Walmart, etc., $1,000,000 on their lawn mowing bill?

It never ends, you will always have to WORK, whether on a mower, or on the phone trying to land that next bid.

If you're happy being in the field, stay small, keep your profit margins higher and you can live knowing you're running a small, personal business.

If you're happier being in the office, tracking down the next bid opportunity, selling selling selling, get 2-3 crews going and plan on living on 10-15% (on the high end) profit margins right now. Every other company with 2-3 crews is going to be cutting profits to keep everything else rolling.

IMO, find a niche, and exploit it. If that means you can get a decent one and keep 2 trucks running, by all means do it. Just remember. If something happens and that second crew doesn't get the work done, it'll come back to you.

I was happiest working 70-90 hour weeks by myself, but my family life struggled. I have an 8 year old and 5 year old and they need their dad around. I broke my foot in August of '08 and found out how nice it was to be home every night at 4-5 pm with the guys working for me.

I just couldn't handle living on the 10% profit margin right now. I do have a higher debt load than most and I'll be clearing that out over the next 2 years (knock on wood).

I'm going back to mostly solo, unless I can regain this $24,500 bid that should be decided here next week, hopefully. I was told I had it, but then it was told to me that someone else had put in a bid for $19,400.

So, we'll see.
 
Joined
·
243 Posts
It is your choice and I hand it to all you guys that run solo.I myself do not feel comfortable working solo and even before I had complexes I would have a contingency plans in place. I had helpers or I would sub my work out in case on injury or illness. You are playing with fire with out those things in place. Also I do not see myself working 70-90 hours a week. I mean really how long can you do that? What are you going to do when your 55+? If your just going with the flow and living life without a care then I guess whatever works for you then?
 
Joined
·
85 Posts
Working alone is not a bad thing. I'm solo for the most part again after running a 5 man crew for years. Emploies is one of the reason I sold my company and moved to TN. Not showing up, brakeing things and not telling you (oh I forgot) or (I didn't even see that), when the client calls and tells you somethings broke sucks big time. It cost time and money to go a fix a problem when you where just there. I can make tons of money but as hard as I try I can't make time. I had to do $700.00 a day just to break even. You just feel your blood pressure raising and raising, Not all its up to being. Now one good guy is a real plus. He can do the things you may not feel like doing or bigger jobs but where the big advantage would be is if you get sick or hurt you can still get something done. Also what if someday you get hurt on the job and noone is around to help you, you could lay their for hours. One last advantage if theft is a problem is they can stay where they can see the trailer.
You wanna make more money, buy equipment that will let you get in and out of a job quicker. I bought my first 36" Wright Stander instead of hiring a guy before I just couldn't handle it all solo.
Good Luck
 

· Banned
Joined
·
504 Posts
Remember you also need backup forman for the forman just in case. Ill give you an example this past summer I worked for a company thats small 1 crew 2 guys this past fall smack dab in the middle of fall cleanups my forman lost both his aunt and his exwife in the same week he was gone from a thursday morning to the following tuesday. Guess who got to finish cleanups, with the tarp and drag method. Needless to say the jobs got done and when he got back all he had to do was take the truck in to get the oil and tires changed, but hey the boss was happy, the clients were happy, and he was happy. The best part I got to put the class A to work for once!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Search!! there are other posts about how big is too big? Just be careful of how profitable it may seem on paper vs. what you have now. I just grew my business, not by hiring another crew, which I could do easily, but by getting a couple of employees to work with me to maximize my time while we are working. Solo is nice, don't get me wrong, but if you are looking to expand look around and see what leads to failure.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
504 Posts
How are you going to pay for a "back up" foreman? Heck, let me know when I start and I'll be a back up foreman. Seriously, YOU'RE the back up foreman. You can't have employee's as back ups.
For that week absolutely, I was not paid anymore, no kickbacks, just a thanks from the owner and a please come back next year haha. It was more of a proving myself to him and just showing what I could do and accomplish during that time.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top