This is an excerpt from an email conversation I've been having with another person from here on the "board". While part of the message is missing, you folks should be able to pick up the gist of things. Any comments? ___________________Steve_________________________ Here in Southern CT we are on the southern extreme edge of Zone 6B. And the season here is a little too much for these rates. I suspect that you are in zone 7. So things for your area would be even worse. In other words, the amount of "crabgrass barrier" that we apply just doesn't cut it in anything but a "perfect growing season". It's been a while since we had one of those! So I prefer to see 2lbs AI/A for Pre-M (pendimethalin) on the first app if only 1 app is made. For Dimension, the label clearly requires .25 lbs AI/A instead of the more common .188 for a once over if postemergent activity is to be expected. At .188 #AI/A, there won't be any of the post emergent activity that makes Dimension so desirable. It'll set up a good 8-10 week pre barrier, but it won't kill crabs that are up. Here at my own house, I only get Crabgrass on the edges where it blows down the road from the "lesser lawns" in my neighborhood. I've treated this place successfully for 8 years now, so even though Crabs were once a problem, there's just no viable seed left here anymore. So if it weren't for the neighbors, I wouldn't need to treat at all. I don't treat for Crabs at all in April anymore. I don't even treat in May. Instead, I seed any plow damaged areas & push growth of the existing turf instead. Then, after Crabgrass has come up, I wack only the edges with Dimension on the 0-0-7 carrier HARD. I use 5.7LBS/M of the .01% Dimension. Any Crabs that survive that treatment I get later, either by hand plucking (I pulled THREE Crabs this year), or in the land that my neighbor & I share, I'll spray a little Accliam. I've talked 2 of my customers into this approach but they both do an all liquid "Monster-Mix" for their round 2. Their first app is straight 20-10-10 granular. This way, any spring seeding they do doesn't affect the spray route. They just treat all the lawns like they were seeded. No need to make special arrangement for anyone. And no added burden to the chemical budget. In fact, their cash flow is greatly improved by Mid-May, so planning & paying for Round 2 is more "reality based". These 2 liquid round 2 guys both add Acclaim (or this year one went Drive & omitted the BWC) at rediculously low rates based on our walk through findings & the scouting of young crabs in the sidewalk cracks & other hot spots we have identified as "indicator areas". In other words if Crabs have gotten a little too big for just the Dimension to handle. we add a very small expense in Post emergent cost to cover the bigger crabs. Acclaim is pricey & HOT when used at .75-10z per 1000. But we lower the rate to .25 oz when it's added to Dimension Ultra. This sounds complicated but it really isn't. Neither of these 2 guys had ANY Crabgrass this year. And they never had to break route or make any crazy supplemental applications they hadn't budgeted for. Plus they never have to spend time talking customers (especially new ones) out of Spring seeding. It's a viscous reality that consumers are ready to spend money in the spring. That's when most Retail Grass Seed is sold. Yet we know that spring seedings take longer to come up and often get over-run with Crabs. So instead of talking people out of spending money on spring seeding, they don't. Just take the money & treat all the lawns accordingly. No stupid worthless Tupersan. No excuses why Crabgrass is there. Just satisfied customers who spent more money & are happy they did. Pretty cool. And, only one crabgrass treatment. There is no need for split apps when the first one goes down this late. Timed correctly, a granular application works exactly the same way. This program came about here because of my own lawn. 2 years ago, the Town Plow guy was out a little too late & sod-cut my (non-curbed) side yard. He scalped to below the roots for about 60 of the 120 feet of roadside turf. I had to topsoil & seed it & we ran out of Tupersan. So I just starter ferted it (18-24-12), watered & waited. Sure enough. By the time I was doing the 3rd mowing, little 2 & 3 leaf Crabs were coming up. So I blasted them with granular 0-0-7 with .1% Dimension at the pre-post rate of 5.7lbs per 1000. I watered it in. Then I went & found my Acclaim just in case. I never used it though. The baby Crabs just withered & died. Since I did this in the first week of June, there was no need for a second app. I got my 8-12 weeks of residual just like everyone else does. But most applicators have to start counting form April 1st-15th. Their first application was gone by the time I make my only one! And most of them just talk about making two. Most of them can't find room in the program for two apps without going over the lawn two or three times in June. ___clipped at this point for length______________ "added for clarity" The window is not open long enough to rely exclusively on the Dimension as a post emergent for the entire second round. But we can start the round here & add Acclaim or Drive (liquid applicators only) when the time comes. The point here is that when we apply .25lbs AI/A of Dimension on June 1st it should cover us for 12 weeks or until August 1st. Nothing we apply in April can make that claim. And the crabs are evidence of this.