Spindle Seized

656 Views 30 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Hexa Fox, 11 h ago

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · 5 d ago

Hey guys,

So I have replaced a lot of crappy MTD spindles over my life but finally I just had one seize up on my Ferris. I was able to get it working again by pumping it full of grease and a little 'persuasion'. So apparently Briggs does not make the spindles anymore and gets them from a third party. So I just elected to by a set online for less than what one costs from the dealer.

Anyway my part number is 5061095 and was hoping to find someone that is familiar with these. I heard a lot of spindles of todays variety that have Zerk fittings are just there for an illusion. I know this to be true on a lot of MTD equipment. So now that my spindle is working I was thinking about taking the time to dissect one of the new ones. Then possibly cut and tap a hole one each side of the housing. One for a Zerk fitting and the other as a relief hole. Has anyone else done this before? I understand most bearings are sealed nowadays and I am probably going to have to take off the inner seals of each bearing so that they will accept grease.

Any advice you guys might have would be appreciated. Also do you guys think I should leave the spindle that seized up on the machine until it fails again or get it off when the new ones arrive? You can tell it is not healthy by any means. When I had the belt off rotating them by hand would result in a couple dozen revolutions when I let go of the healthy ones. After getting the faulty one moving again it was lucky to get just a few rotations.

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

Fuzzy1

· #2 · 5 d ago

Hexa Fox said:
Hey guys,

So I have replaced a lot of crappy MTD spindles over my life but finally I just had one seize up on my Ferris. I was able to get it working again by pumping it full of grease and a little 'persuasion'. So apparently Briggs does not make the spindles anymore and gets them from a third party. So I just elected to by a set online for less than what one costs from the dealer.

Anyway my part number is 5061095 and was hoping to find someone that is familiar with these. I heard a lot of spindles of todays variety that have Zerk fittings are just there for an illusion. I know this to be true on a lot of MTD equipment. So now that my spindle is working I was thinking about taking the time to dissect one of the new ones. Then possibly cut and tap a hole one each side of the housing. One for a Zerk fitting and the other as a relief hole. Has anyone else done this before? I understand most bearings are sealed nowadays and I am probably going to have to take off the inner seals of each bearing so that they will accept grease.

Any advice you guys might have would be appreciated. Also do you guys think I should leave the spindle that seized up on the machine until it fails again or get it off when the new ones arrive? You can tell it is not healthy by any means. When I had the belt off rotating them by hand would result in a couple dozen revolutions when I let go of the healthy ones. After getting the faulty one moving again it was lucky to get just a few rotations.

No need for the relief hole ... grease under pressure will seek the path of least resistance ... which is by going around the "seals" ... so, no need to remove the inner seals to help that happen ... relief holes will only allow the grease an easier path, therefor bypassing the bearings completely. Install the Zerk ... pump the spindle full of grease until it emerges from the top & bottom bearings ... NOW the cavity is full, and any additional greasing will go directly past the seals and into the bearing.
As for the seized spindle ... disassemble it and replace the bearings ... the spindle is likely not damaged unless you spun a bearing in it's race.

Reactions: 1

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · #3 · 5 d ago

Fuzzy1 said:
No need for the relief hole ... grease under pressure will seek the path of least resistance ... which is by going around the "seals" ... so, no need to remove the inner seals to help that happen ... relief holes will only allow the grease an easier path, therefor bypassing the bearings completely. Install the Zerk ... pump the spindle full of grease until it emerges from the top & bottom bearings ... NOW the cavity is full, and any additional greasing will go directly past the seals and into the bearing.
As for the seized spindle ... disassemble it and replace the bearings ... the spindle is likely not damaged unless you spun a bearing in it's race.

Thanks so to clarify I am talking about bearings that have seals on both sides. Are you saying that if I put the Zerk fitting in the middle of them and pump it full of grease it will get inside of them or rather I should remove one side of the seals of the bearings beforehand?

ricky86

· #4 · 5 d ago

Maybe try a higher quality brg. Leave them sealed. Some are double sealed.
The grease in the void will help absorb moisture.
There’s good possibility of pushing the seals out of place when lubricating.
Brgs have a lifespan. Like every thing else.

FLC2000

· #5 · 5 d ago

This is probably a dumb question but if that spindle fails during its warranty period and you take it back with a couple holes drilled in it do you really think they are going to take it back? Spindles are sealed for a reason. How long did you get out of the original before it failed? Years? Seems like a long time to me.

Breezmeister

· #6 · 5 d ago

Hexa Fox said:
Zerk fittings are just there for an illusion. I know this to be true on a lot of MTD equipment. So now that my spindle is working I was thinking about taking the time to dissect one of the new ones. Then possibly cut and tap a hole one each side of the housing. One for a Zerk fitting and the other as a relief hole.

If you want to take apart a new one, why not just rebuild the old one. why go do all that work ? Then do what ever you think will help extend the life of the rebuilt one.....
.

Reactions: 3

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · #7 · 5 d ago

Breezmeister said:
If you want to take apart a new one, why not just rebuild the old one. why go do all that work ? Then do what ever you think will help extend the life of the rebuilt one.....
.

I mow commercially. Like I said, I have never rebuilt a spindle before. So if I have trouble with it or finding the bearings right away at least I can slap one of the new ones on immediately and go right back to mowing if I need to. Worst case scenario I destroy the housing or shaft trying to get the bearings out and I am in this boat anyway. If I decided to just deal with the old spindle I might run into a problem I cannot fix in a day, which is also probably going to be a day where I have a full day of mowing.

Take this for example, this stuff always happens at the worst possible time. I had several customers request their lawn get mowed before the holiday weekend like I am sure a lot of people get. I go to start mowing those properties yesterday, boom spindle locks up. Just my luck. For instance, if I want I can slap a new one on and take my time to examine the faulty one and rebuild it or modify it if I want.

FLC2000 said:
This is probably a dumb question but if that spindle fails during its warranty period and you take it back with a couple holes drilled in it do you really think they are going to take it back? Spindles are sealed for a reason. How long did you get out of the original before it failed? Years? Seems like a long time to me.

So go back and read my post. Briggs no longer makes the spindles for my machine. So I just elected to buy a set off eBay. They are the same on Amazon or anywhere else when you cross reference the part number. I think the company is called "8Ten". Anyway if I remember correctly most parts from the dealer only have a warranty of 30 days and I think some things have a year. So it does not matter anyway. Even if I modify one of these and it causes catastrophic failure the 'lesson learned' is probably not going to come within a year, definitely not 30 days.

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Fuzzy1

· #8 · 5 d ago

Hexa Fox said:
Thanks so to clarify I am talking about bearings that have seals on both sides. Are you saying that if I put the Zerk fitting in the middle of them and pump it full of grease it will get inside of them or rather I should remove one side of the seals of the bearings beforehand?

Leave the seals and pump grease until it emerges from both ends ... the grease gun creates thousands of pounds of pressure, and no seal can hold it back.

Reactions: 1

Fuzzy1

· #9 · 5 d ago

Install the new and rebuild the old ... you won't believe how easy it is, and the bearings are standard off-the-shelf parts. You can get great pricing on name brand bearings on Amazon, ot if you need them right away, NAPA will have the same parts just at higher cost.

Reactions: 1

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · #10 · 5 d ago

Fuzzy1 said:
Install the new and rebuild the old ... you won't believe how easy it is, and the bearings are standard off-the-shelf parts. You can get great pricing on name brand bearings on Amazon, ot if you need them right away, NAPA will have the same parts just at higher cost.

Thanks Fuzzy1,

So this guy is right on the money?

Fuzzy1

· #11 · 5 d ago

YEP ... you will likely get all kinds of advice on this .. some good .. some bad. You will be told that over-greasing a bearing can harm it ... that is partly true ... BUT ... in this particular application, if the bearing is over-filled, within a few seconds of running the heat generated will lower the viscosity of the grease and it will be pushed out, relieving the condition. Over-greasing will only last for a minute ... under-greasing will last until the bearing locks up and fails.

Reactions: 2

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · #12 · 5 d ago

Fuzzy1 said:
YEP ... you will likely get all kinds of advice on this .. some good .. some bad. You will be told that over-greasing a bearing can harm it ... that is partly true ... BUT ... in this particular application, if the bearing is over-filled, within a few seconds of running the heat generated will lower the viscosity of the grease and it will be pushed out, relieving the condition. Over-greasing will only last for a minute ... under-greasing will last until the bearing locks up and fails.

Do you think using a battery grease gun adds too much pressure? I have gotten sick of doing it by hand and if I have to put this much grease in them I may just go ahead and invest in one.

I have always wanted a Milwaukee M18 grease gun.

Reactions: 1

Brucey

· #13 · 5 d ago

Hexa Fox said:
Do you think using a battery grease gun adds too much pressure? I have gotten sick of doing it by hand and if I have to put this much grease in them I may just go ahead and invest in one.

I have always wanted a Milwaukee M18 grease gun.

Son has the Milwaukee M18 gun. There's a setting dial that controls how fast it's pumping. At lowest speed I think it should be fine. The best part is when it comes time to grease the trailer bearings. So much easier when you are pumping half a tube per wheel.

Reactions: 2

Mike N

· #14 · 5 d ago

Fuzzy1 said:
YEP ... you will likely get all kinds of advice on this .. some good .. some bad. You will be told that over-greasing a bearing can harm it ... that is partly true ... BUT ... in this particular application, if the bearing is over-filled, within a few seconds of running the heat generated will lower the viscosity of the grease and it will be pushed out, relieving the condition. Over-greasing will only last for a minute ... under-greasing will last until the bearing locks up and fails.

My motto for greasing things.....
"If a little is enough, then too much is just right."

Reactions: 2

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · #15 · 5 d ago

Mike N said:
My motto for greasing things.....
"If a little is enough, then too much is just right."

Sounds like if you believe what people are saying about the spindles you really need “too much”. The guy in the video said if your spindles ship dry which he said most do he said “expect about 70 pumps”.

Justin Hightower

· #16 · 4 d ago

I've always just removed the inside seals on the bearings and greased em up. I understand leaving the outside seals for dirt/debris but why leave the inside seals in? Without them there grease can enter the bearing easier.

Reactions: 1

Fuzzy1

· #17 · 4 d ago

Justin Hightower said:
I've always just removed the inside seals on the bearings and greased em up. I understand leaving the outside seals for dirt/debris but why leave the inside seals in? Without them there grease can enter the bearing easier.

Unless you are replacing the bearings, it wouldn't make much sense to completely disassemble the spindles just to remove the inner seals, since they do nothing to prevent fresh grease from entering.

Reactions: 1

Hexa Fox

Discussion Starter · #18 · 4 d ago

Fuzzy1 said:
Unless you are replacing the bearings, it wouldn't make much sense to completely disassemble the spindles just to remove the inner seals, since they do nothing to prevent fresh grease from entering.

but you agree?

When I rebuild the other spindle should I remove the inner facing seals from the bearings?

Fuzzy1

· #19 · 3 d ago

Purely your option ... no real advantage either way.

Justin Hightower

· #20 · 3 d ago

Fuzzy1 said:
Unless you are replacing the bearings, it wouldn't make much sense to completely disassemble the spindles just to remove the inner seals, since they do nothing to prevent fresh grease from entering.

Yes you're correct. I wouldn't disassemble to merely do that. I was meaning if I was teplacing bearings only.

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