Status Quo from Chem/Fert Salesmen

Discussion in 'Turf Renovation' started by Smallaxe, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    When I went through University it was made clear, who was buttering the bread of that institution... grants and donations from the chemical companies created a friendly environment as to 'learning' about these chemicals and how they worked... The universities automatically took the 'research' and published it in the textbooks, because those guys were the experts...

    So... Who believes that the system set up 40 years ago, guided by the salesmen of the day, is the best thing for lawncare?

    4-7 apps/season is definately better for money, and that is NOT the question... Is it best for the lawn??? ... that's the question.

    This is just a thread, that hopes to bring to light, what LCO's actually believe... :)
  2. turfcobob

    turfcobob LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 878

    I can tell you from my experience as a manufacturer with over 30 years of working with Universities all over the US. That we never guided the outcome of a study. We only provided the tools for the researchers and students and lived with their findings. I am sure the chemical folks do the same thing. Other wise there would be no integerity in the papers they publish.

  3. kennc38

    kennc38 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 294

    By the way you've worded the question, you make it sound like the universtities stopped all their research 40 years ago. I know for a fact that NC State continues to do research on turf care and make all their findings known to the public, not just in textbooks but also on their website. Does private industry contribute money to this research? Absolutely. But to say that private industry decides the outcome of that research is completely ridiculous.
    It appears to me that you have a personal "axe" to grind with someone or something and simply use this forum to do so. Either that or you're one of those skeptical types that doubt everything, like whether or not we landed on the moon or that Area 51 is being to conduct alien research. If you want to know what LCO's believe or do as standard practice, why don't you do an internet search of those LCO's websites and find out what they do as standard practice.

    Remember, we're learning here.
  4. jonthepain

    jonthepain LawnSite Senior Member
    Male, from Raleigh
    Messages: 595

    It IS? OMG!

    Seriously though, I took all of my turf management courses at NC State.

    It would be laughable if it weren't so insulting to insinuate that any of their professional researchers or their students are "in the pocket of" chemical industry salesmen.

    And btw, they treated me with respect and went out of their way to assist me in my organic lawn care studies.
  5. kennc38

    kennc38 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 294

    I agree. I have heard nothing but positive things about NC State's agricultural department, as well as their other departments. My son also graduated from there so I know they are serious about research and not filling the pockets of the private sector.
  6. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    None of those answered the question... the larger topic of whether research done in the field by fertilizer manufacturers is what was transfered and taught 40 yrs ago is a separate issue...

    But as long as we are there, consider this... A recent University research that I agree with and support : ... no "axe" to grind here... :)
    But it contradicts the Status Quo in the Squirt&Fert "Programs"

    Just like our extention offices in the midwest are all saying "NEW" things about Spring Fert&Squirt applicatins... Not in April, even May, but June... for you first app. to AVOID real thatch and for healthier, more vigorous root growth...
    That contradicts the status quo as well...

    So the question remains: Who does the "Independant Studies" on fertilizer now and who did the majority of in the field testing 40 years ago and longer?

    When I was in university, neither my Horticulture class nor my Botany classes would even cover the topic of lawn turf... He said he would answer specific questions, but evidently didn't believe what he was "Supposed" to teach... kind of like evolution... he wasn't going to teach that as fact either...

    So back to my original question: Does the new research and findings change your mind , or do you follow the status quo?... :)
  7. jonthepain

    jonthepain LawnSite Senior Member
    Male, from Raleigh
    Messages: 595

    Interesting article, SA

    So I guess I should continue to offer fall fert to my clients

    I don't manage bentgrass, and don't fert during the winter - which is fairly short and mild down here, but it still seems silly to me to fert at that time.


    Not sure how all that contradicts what we were taught by the evil status-quo turf professors, but ok.
  8. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    It's all about cool season grasses and actual winter scenarios...

    "...evil status quo proffessors" Really!
    I was talking about what is being done, in the field by PROS and how it contradicts what real research is telling us!

    staus quo is not in the University in THIS case... staus quo is the moron dumping fert/chems on frozen turf so it can wash into the lakes with the spring thaw...
    the status quo is the stupid lco-pro that dumps the same kr@p on dormant turf in the spring so it can wash into thelakes and streams with the spring rains...

    "evil staus quo proffessors"??? do you ever get a clue as to what is being discussed in the written word??? ... :laugh:
  9. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,807

    I think spring greenup depends mainly on the soil temperature. Fert will not affect the spring soil temperature.

    Secondly, spring greenup depends on the actual cultivar of grass originally planted. Many sod-type elite bluegrasses are notoriously slow to green up in the spring. Read a few of the seed company descriptions and you will note that if a bluegrass greens up earlier than usual in spring they will always mention that fact. Perennial ryegrass usually greens up a week or two earlier than Kentucky bluegrass around here.
  10. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    We're not talking about "GreenUp"... we're talking about botany... talking about turf health... talking about wasting fert...

    We're talking about running a business according to "Ol' Wives Tales' - vs. - current research that analyses the effects the effects of raw fert on frozen/dormant turf...

    Maybe someone out there actually understands what the deal is... Mock me all you want... This is about fert and timing, nothing to do with seed...

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