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Discussion starter · #101 ·
Yours is a 66" XR-7, right?
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Green I disagree. I believe it was all to due with too much assist and the rough surface. I had no negative hydro issues to speak of other than noticing I needed to up the rpms from idle to climb my trailer ramp if you can call that a negative. I chalked it up to the bigger system just requiring the rpms. My other SZ is happier off idle as well just not as noticeable.
Hey mtmower, dont like to have to disagree with you but in a kind and friendly way I guess I do... Dont wish to be negative either but whats the point of discussing things on lawnsite if I dont share my honest experiences. What I say on here wont stop anyone making their own decisions & nor would I want it to.

The spring assist was backed off as far as possible on the SZ & done by the dealer, then when I purchased the X1 it actually had/has more assist pressure on the same deck. Regarding the rough surface, the thing is that Im using the X1 on the same rough surfaces as I was getting bounce issues with the SZ. With those 2 things said, I dont get any bounce issues to speak off with X1 & it is of my opinion through my own time spent on both machines, that the problem lay with the hydros. I dont beleive the chassis or diff tyres play any part. For eg I could put flat free tyres on front of X1 and Im 99.99% sure I wont get any deck bounce as a result. Also for TLS, I can very confidently say that a slightly more rigid frame is not enough to create a deck bouncing issue. So I personally do beleive that if the same hydros were fitted to my X1 then over the same properties I would get the same deck bouncing, likewise if I put the hydros from X1 onto the SZ Im confident the bouncing would be gone. But its just my opinion, which is diff to yours and I guess thats human nature.. we all think different and we all think we are right, I could be wrong, but not about to go swapping hydros over to find out.

I dont wish to cause a big debate, just want to give my experience, which is completely honest, not exaggerated.

With regard the thread, its a good review & those pics are very nice, reminds me of a holiday in new zealand a little. The SZ is one nice looking machine! :drinkup:
 
First pictures are of clipping issue. I wouldn't consider any of what I have as clumping because it's fanned out but at the high end homes I service I can't leave it looking like this, just not acceptable. So the question is do I just buy the HD and blow clippings?

Other pics are of my full stick property.
Mt, nice pics as usuall. I had forgotten just how fine the grass is your way. I hope you get a chance to demo the Exmark as I think the extra lift will perform well. Im also curious how the Velocity will perform, as a long time Scag owner I feel the clippings may give you some of the blanket effect and may not cut as clean in fine grass when its dry. I feel the new XF2 with the adjustable baffles down may give you the lift you need. Also curious how the 7 iron would perform?
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Hey mtmower, dont like to have to disagree with you but in a kind and friendly way I guess I do... Dont wish to be negative either but whats the point of discussing things on lawnsite if I dont share my honest experiences. What I say on here wont stop anyone making their own decisions & nor would I want it to.

The spring assist was backed off as far as possible on the SZ & done by the dealer, then when I purchased the X1 it actually had/has more assist pressure on the same deck. Regarding the rough surface, the thing is that Im using the X1 on the same rough surfaces as I was getting bounce issues with the SZ. With those 2 things said, I dont get any bounce issues to speak off with X1 & it is of my opinion through my own time spent on both machines, that the problem lay with the hydros. I dont beleive the chassis or diff tyres play any part. For eg I could put flat free tyres on front of X1 and Im 99.99% sure I wont get any deck bounce as a result. Also for TLS, I can very confidently say that a slightly more rigid frame is not enough to create a deck bouncing issue. So I personally do beleive that if the same hydros were fitted to my X1 then over the same properties I would get the same deck bouncing, likewise if I put the hydros from X1 onto the SZ Im confident the bouncing would be gone. But its just my opinion, which is diff to yours and I guess thats human nature.. we all think different and we all think we are right, I could be wrong, but not about to go swapping hydros over to find out.

I dont wish to cause a big debate, just want to give my experience, which is completely honest, not exaggerated.

With regard the thread, its a good review & those pics are very nice, reminds me of a holiday in new zealand a little. The SZ is one nice looking machine! :drinkup:
No worries! We can agree to disagree. The only other thing I'll add, if I hadn't already, is the deck bounce may be due to different assist spring rates. I called Hustler directly and the gentleman I talked to recommended getting springs from a new SZ for my XR7 after I complained to him about it. On my 66" XR7 I have the assist turned all the way up and believe me it's work for me to lift it. No chance of deck bounce unless it comes off my trailer at 70 mph:laugh:. I guess it's possible your SZ had the heavier and the X had the original. I can't finding any reason for having different springs on the same deck. The only difference I'm aware of is heavier blades on the SZ. If this were the case though I'd hope Hustler would have there act together to know this and just swap out springs when necessary rather than having to flop mowers. I'm glad the X is working out for you.
 
Some pics of the HD. Note the tires. I didn't realize that they now are mounting their muffler horizontally down low either till now. Nice fuel gauge. I like the pull knob verses the lever for the choke so if I grab for it blind I don't have two sticks to choose from (throttle and choke).
I honestly believe my mower is the exact same mower as the one you demoed, with the only difference being I have 24" drive wheels where the one you used has 26". I have semi-pneumatic "run flat" front tires, whereas the one you demoed has total pneumatic.

I thought I would give the run flats a try, and believe me they give an excellent ride, I am extremely pleased, if I had not liked the tires my dealer said we would change over.

The "run-flat" tires are semi-pneumatic with thicker wall rubber, and I much prefer them over the pneumatic tires. I would have not believed this until I experienced the difference. I know this is hard to believe, but due to the design of this semi-pneumatic tire, it actually absorbs shock better than the pneumatic tire.

I am enclosing a link to the tire I'm running on the 72, and so-much more prefer it over the pneumatic I will probably change my 2006 over to the same tire. I must purchase the wheel and tire as a one piece unit, they are not made for the rubber alone to be changed out.

http://otrwheel.com/products/tires/otr-semi-pneumatic-smooth-tire-13x6-50-6-detail

I am enclosing a shot of the control panel on my mower. There is zero difference between my mower control panel, and the one you are demoing.

I am really interested in why the positioning of the engine was changed, and I will find out.

I think the extra 1 mph is calculated due to the 2" difference in drive wheel size, and can tell the new mower definitely runs faster than my old machine (which is plenty fast).

No worries! We can agree to disagree. The only other thing I'll add, if I hadn't already, is the deck bounce may be due to different assist spring rates. I called Hustler directly and the gentleman I talked to recommended getting springs from a new SZ for my XR7 after I complained to him about it. On my 66" XR7 I have the assist turned all the way up and believe me it's work for me to lift it. No chance of deck bounce unless it comes off my trailer at 70 mph:laugh:. I guess it's possible your SZ had the heavier and the X had the original. I can't finding any reason for having different springs on the same deck. The only difference I'm aware of is heavier blades on the SZ. If this were the case though I'd hope Hustler would have there act together to know this and just swap out springs when necessary rather than having to flop mowers. I'm glad the X is working out for you.
It is interesting you mentioned the deck being difficult to lift, I also have the 66" deck on my 2006 yr model, and the deck lift works so effortlessly I must be very careful when feathering the deck up not to move it into transport position, my wife must have it this light or she cannot handle it.

Motor vehicle Gas Machine Auto part Automotive lighting
 
I honestly believe my mower is the exact same mower as the one you demoed, with the only difference being I have 24" drive wheels where the one you used has 26". I have semi-pneumatic "run flat" front tires, whereas the one you demoed has total pneumatic.

I thought I would give the run flats a try, and believe me they give an excellent ride, I am extremely pleased, if I had not liked the tires my dealer said we would change over.

The "run-flat" tires are semi-pneumatic with thicker wall rubber, and I much prefer them over the pneumatic tires. I would have not believed this until I experienced the difference. I know this is hard to believe, but due to the design of this semi-pneumatic tire, it actually absorbs shock better than the pneumatic tire.

I am enclosing a link to the tire I'm running on the 72, and so-much more prefer it over the pneumatic I will probably change my 2006 over to the same tire. I must purchase the wheel and tire as a one piece unit, they are not made for the rubber alone to be changed out.

http://otrwheel.com/products/tires/otr-semi-pneumatic-smooth-tire-13x6-50-6-detail

I am enclosing a shot of the control panel on my mower. There is zero difference between my mower control panel, and the one you are demoing.

I am really interested in why the positioning of the engine was changed, and I will find out.

I think the extra 1 mph is calculated due to the 2" difference in drive wheel size, and can tell the new mower definitely runs faster than my old machine (which is plenty fast).

It is interesting you mentioned the deck being difficult to lift, I also have the 66" deck on my 2006 yr model, and the deck lift works so effortlessly I must be very careful when feathering the deck up not to move it into transport position, my wife must have it this light or she cannot handle it.
Yes. Same dash. Seat, larger rear tires, maybe pneumatic front tires may be the only differences but from my prior SZ these things add up to a very nice difference IMO. I would definitely pay what ever difference there is for these adds. I wonder if all the new SZs are going to have the turned engine?

I do see an upside in some situations to no flats. As you say a quality one may absorb the shock better, slowing down the compression and decompression over an air filled. I don't care for the flat spotting when sitting in cooler weather or how grass tends to stick to them in extreme situations. Are you running flex forks with your run flats?

Unless I got a bum set of springs or earlier/older model, the only other reason for the need for excessive force to raise my deck would be due to the additional weight of the added baffle kits and striper kit which does add up.
 
Discussion starter · #108 ·
The new SZ and SZ-HD (Hyper-Drive) both have turned engines and under mounted mufflers.

I think Hustler is making a mistake going back to the older style pumps on the new Standard SuperZ. They failed plenty with our lighter older machines.
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Yes. Same dash. Seat, larger rear tires, maybe pneumatic front tires may be the only differences but from my prior SZ these things add up to a very nice difference IMO. I would definitely pay what ever difference there is for these adds. I wonder if all the new SZs are going to have the turned engine?

I do see an upside in some situations to no flats. As you say a quality one may absorb the shock better, slowing down the compression and decompression over an air filled. I don't care for the flat spotting when sitting in cooler weather or how grass tends to stick to them in extreme situations. Are you running flex forks with your run flats?

Unless I got a bum set of springs or earlier/older model, the only other reason for the need for excessive force to raise my deck would be due to the additional weight of the added baffle kits and striper kit which does add up.
These tires are totally different, and yes if they set in cold weather there will be a little flat area that causes a slight bump until you travel about 25', after this the tires round out completely. I've thought about this and could not honestly understand how they could move back into their totally round position that quickly. I then decided it must have something to do with the composition of the rubber allowing the memory to be removed much faster, and I feel assured the semi-pneumatic part of the equation helps with this as well.

I do have the flex forks on the 72, and they work great. I think the rubber composition of the tires partner well with the flex forks. This helps remove the shock when hitting rough areas that would cause the front of the mower to jar.

I've operated many mowers including what would be the best ride on the market, a Ferris 3100 with full 4 wheel independent suspension. This new, heavier, longer wheel base Super Z rides as good as any mower I've ever operated. The Ferris rides extremely well, but one must remember, the Ferris is a 12 mph machine, meaning you are mowing in the 10.5+ mph range, whereas I am mowing in to 13.5+ range, this in itself is a totally different world. You move the Ferris up into the 13+ mph range and you will find it to be a totally different machine, one than in reality may not stay together, it is much harder on a machine when adding 3 + or - mph to its cutting speed. Many people never take this into consideration.

I was told the torsion rubber had been strengthened on the new flex forks. I do believe if the composition was the same as the first flex forks I purchased for my 2006 Super Z, the weight of this heavier, longer wheel base mower would cause severe dip from over active up and down movement.

I could always stand just behind the tire and make the flex forks move up and down on my old mower when showing people how they work. The flex forks on the new mower will not allow me enough movement for anyone to see how they work, which I take to mean they are somewhat stronger. I was told by Hustler they were beefed up.
 
Very good review and that property looks fantastic!

Turning the engine is interesting but like Puppy said, oil changes etc may become more of a pain. Even checking the oil. I do it daily and its easy with the dipstick out the back.
The exhaust, while it may reduce the cracking, it may burn grass more. I see the tow hitch is acting like a heat shield. Be interesting when you check out where you parked and let idle. I know my older SZ would leave burn marks when ever I got off to move a grey water hose. They get hot, hot enough to light a smoke when the lighter fails!
The extra speed would have to be the tires which makes me more comfortable with the 24's. Lower geared for the slopes etc but more ground pressure. I get more rutting than previous machines. I like the higher rear end on the HD for that extra clearance. Might make ya pooh a little more if you start flipping backwards though! haa

I didnt know they had the fuel gauge! I kinda like the idea of just looking over my shoulder to see how much I have. Problem could be there accuracy!

The shield over the fan is held on by a, I dont even know what to call it! Anyway, theres a what looks like a plastic nut under the rubber that can be tightened to give a firmer fit. If theres still rattle you can bend out the sides of the shield to tighten them up. Ive had to do it myself.

The Im a fan of the "semi" front front castors, with the flex forks but I think the HD has different sized castors. The 26" drive wheels raise the azz end so I'd say the castors would raise the front around 1".

I want that seat but the older Michigan is ok. Always want better though without raising the height. I miss the flex seat though. Can rarely sit back where as I could a lot more often with the FS. Probably better to sit more upright anyway, I dunno!

The deck bounce, I only get it when I hit a large or sharp enough rut or something. I dont know if I adjusted the springs or not but I dont consider it an issue. Green had a problem with it though and I acknowledge that. Anyway, I did mention changing to different springs, even modding the springs that were on it etc. The XR7 deck I had weighed a heap, enough to start doing damage to my knee. A spring off the XR7 may of sorted that issue. The newer deck lift is much better. Just need to find the balance between weight and lift. Moot point now though for Green.
I personally love the hydros! Smooth and strong and can operate one hand over extremely rough terrain!

Thirsty! Yep, very!!! I'd expect it to be more so driving the 26" wheels on the HD. I get the idler chatter if I dont engage the deck at high enough revs. Just find the sweet spot and no problem. Theres a fair bit of weight in those blades!

Clipping size... Ask about the replacement front baffle. I believe its for the catcher or something. It reduces the gap between the blade and the front of the deck. It does reduce the chute size as well so might cause other problems. It will direct clippings in a different direction shooting them back more. I wish I had a photo of it!

Anyway, carry on..... ha
 
It really is funny how something as simple as the new no flats can have such an impact on the ride. They really do work like having a little bit of suspension. As long as you can live with the flat spots for 25 to 30' they are amazing. I cant imagine a machine without them now. Mt is right though, for some reason in wet grass they do collect clippings pretty good.
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Turning the engine is interesting but like Puppy said, oil changes etc may become more of a pain. Even checking the oil. I do it daily and its easy with the dipstick out the back.
My 35 has not used a drop of oil that I can tell, does your 35 use any oil, and how many hrs is on your mower up to this point? I've only put 48 hrs on my new mower, I still find myself jumping on my 2006 more often than the new mower.

It would be hard for most people to believe a person would just as soon ride and operate a 2006 28 efi with a 66" deck, when a new 35/72 is sitting next to it, but the old mower still performs perfectly, and with half the fuel consumption.

That is a strong testimony as to how good a shape my older mower is in, and how good it rides and operates. My wife loves the old mower, she calls it "her mower," and does not like the new mower, she claims it feels to big, and she is not as comfortable with its maneuverability.

It really is funny how something as simple as the new no flats can have such an impact on the ride. They really do work like having a little bit of suspension. As long as you can live with the flat spots for 25 to 30' they are amazing. I cant imagine a machine without them now. Mt is right though, for some reason in wet grass they do collect clippings pretty good.
What is your thoughts on the memory not staying with the tire any longer? I find by the time I start moving I've forgotten all about it.
 
It really is funny how something as simple as the new no flats can have such an impact on the ride. They really do work like having a little bit of suspension. As long as you can live with the flat spots for 25 to 30' they are amazing. I cant imagine a machine without them now. Mt is right though, for some reason in wet grass they do collect clippings pretty good.
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Surface area!
 
My 35 has not used a drop of oil that I can tell, does your 35 use any oil, and how many hrs is on your mower up to this point? I've only put 48 hrs on my new mower, I still find myself jumping on my 2006 more often than the new mower.

It would be hard for most people to believe a person would just as soon ride and operate a 2006 28 efi with a 66" deck, when a new 35/72 is sitting next to it, but the old mower still performs perfectly, and with half the fuel consumption.

That is a strong testimony as to how good a shape my older mower is in, and how good it rides and operates. My wife loves the old mower, she calls it "her mower," and does not like the new mower, she claims it feels to big, and she is not as comfortable with its maneuverability.

What is your thoughts on the memory not staying with the tire any longer? I find by the time I start moving I've forgotten all about it.
With the oil, it will use a little oil but not much. I'd expect it to with with the heat and hills, grass length etc I have to deal with at times. But really, doesnt use very much at all. I really dont remember having to top it up between oil changes.

I have 350hrs on it now. Not as much as it should have! All the down time due to rain the last 2 seasons have kept them low. Should have closer to 5 or 600hrs on it now.

The older one was more nimble for sure and is better suited to smaller areas, but I am surprised you operate the older more yourself with all the large open areas you have. No way would I do that!

I get the flat spot as well on the tire but really, once Im on the grass I cant notice a thing. Would need to be concrete smooth to feel it! Only time I do is when Im going down my driveway. A non issue and a very small price to pay for not having to deal with tire pressures and punctures! How they'd go without flex forks though, I dont know!

Just getting back to the caster size on the HD, it looks the same as on the Gravely! Larger than on my SZ!
Not that I would but I wonder if I could put 26" drive tires and the larger casters on my machine? Cant see why not. Would have to adjust the deck Im sure.
 
With the oil, it will use a little oil but not much. I'd expect it to with with the heat and hills, grass length etc I have to deal with at times. But really, doesnt use very much at all. I really dont remember having to top it up between oil changes.

I have 350hrs on it now. Not as much as it should have! All the down time due to rain the last 2 seasons have kept them low. Should have closer to 5 or 600hrs on it now.

The older one was more nimble for sure and is better suited to smaller areas, but I am surprised you operate the older more yourself with all the large open areas you have. No way would I do that!

I get the flat spot as well on the tire but really, once Im on the grass I cant notice a thing. Would need to be concrete smooth to feel it! Only time I do is when Im going down my driveway. A non issue and a very small price to pay for not having to deal with tire pressures and punctures! How they'd go without flex forks though, I dont know!

Just getting back to the caster size on the HD, it looks the same as on the Gravely! Larger than on my SZ!
Not that I would but I wonder if I could put 26" drive tires and the larger casters on my machine? Cant see why not. Would have to adjust the deck Im sure.
I jump on the big mower when I need to cover a lot of open area in a hurry, or when big grass is a concern.

I ran the big mower until almost dark this evening, I was cutting a waterway where it has been really wet, and the grass was 12" or more in height. I made the big Kawasaki holler for a little help in places, but the old mower could not cut the grass I was in unless taking about 25% of the deck width with it locked into transport position. The 28 efi would want nothing to do with the area I was cutting.
 
With the oil, it will use a little oil but not much. I'd expect it to with with the heat and hills, grass length etc I have to deal with at times. But really, doesnt use very much at all. I really dont remember having to top it up between oil changes.

I have 350hrs on it now. Not as much as it should have! All the down time due to rain the last 2 seasons have kept them low. Should have closer to 5 or 600hrs on it now.

The older one was more nimble for sure and is better suited to smaller areas, but I am surprised you operate the older more yourself with all the large open areas you have. No way would I do that!

I get the flat spot as well on the tire but really, once Im on the grass I cant notice a thing. Would need to be concrete smooth to feel it! Only time I do is when Im going down my driveway. A non issue and a very small price to pay for not having to deal with tire pressures and punctures! How they'd go without flex forks though, I dont know!

Just getting back to the caster size on the HD, it looks the same as on the Gravely! Larger than on my SZ!
Not that I would but I wonder if I could put 26" drive tires and the larger casters on my machine? Cant see why not. Would have to adjust the deck Im sure.
Just ran out and checked. The front casters look bigger but it's on my trailer so I'm not seeing them side by side. But both my old SZ and the HD say 13x6.5x6 for rubber. So they must just have to pitch the deck unless the casters themselves are slightly different which I can't tell by naked eye.
 
Just ran out and checked. The front casters look bigger but it's on my trailer so I'm not seeing them side by side. But both my old SZ and the HD say 13x6.5x6 for rubber. So they must just have to pitch the deck unless the casters themselves are slightly different which I can't tell by naked eye.
Im shocked but you are correct. I just looked it up! I was told they are bigger!
How the hell does that work? I mean, if I put 26" drive tires on mine, that will give the deck much more pitch right, so to level would mean dropping the rear of the deck. With me? So doesnt that mean much more angle on the belt when cutting low? Isnt greater angle worse for belt and pulley life?

Can you measure the the height of the caster arms on each machine for me? Surely they would of levelled the machine? hmmmm

I dunno, its a wet / no work day here so....:rolleyes:

Puppy, you have the best of both worlds! I wish I had more larger props to open it up!
 
Mick,
I have owned a few sets of the tires that come on the HD version (26x12-12 Multi Trac's) on my JD garden tractors. They aren't really 26" tall, but then the tires on the std SZ aren't 24" tall either. Regardless, the tallers tires will raise the rear approx 1" since the axle is centered which spilts the height gain by half. I am not sure if the 1" would make too much of an angle issue on your SZ or not. Just throwin' it out there to consider.
 
No worries! We can agree to disagree. The only other thing I'll add, if I hadn't already, is the deck bounce may be due to different assist spring rates. I called Hustler directly and the gentleman I talked to recommended getting springs from a new SZ for my XR7 after I complained to him about it. On my 66" XR7 I have the assist turned all the way up and believe me it's work for me to lift it. No chance of deck bounce unless it comes off my trailer at 70 mph:laugh:. I guess it's possible your SZ had the heavier and the X had the original. I can't finding any reason for having different springs on the same deck. The only difference I'm aware of is heavier blades on the SZ. If this were the case though I'd hope Hustler would have there act together to know this and just swap out springs when necessary rather than having to flop mowers. I'm glad the X is working out for you.
Yea no harm in having a diff of opinions! I'm not always right with things I say, but Im just trying to be honest from what Ive experienced. Dont wish to make enemies!

The springs were identical between the SZ & X1, everything with regard to the deck was identical & I have been using SZ blades with it. As I say though I had the tension removed completely from the SZ setup, whereas with the X1 it has the factory tension set on it and I havent ever adjusted. So it was very clear to me that the hydros were the cause, also I was experiencing bad jerking through the back and neck with SZ, then with X1 on the same grounds there was very little to no jerking.

So I was quite pleased for a couple months with the X1, until about feb we came out of our little drought and then the clumping issues appeared for me as Mickhippy has had. However it looks like he will have something worked out to fix that soon so thats great!

But Im keen to sell the X1 and move on.

Anyway I dont wish to bad mouth the SZ as it was only in my case I had issues, so its pointless for me to be influencing anyone elses decisions, not that I could. It was just in this thread you mentioned deck bounce & I felt I had enough experience with that to make a comment.
 
Mick,
I have owned a few sets of the tires that come on the HD version (26x12-12 Multi Trac's) on my JD garden tractors. They aren't really 26" tall, but then the tires on the std SZ aren't 24" tall either. Regardless, the tallers tires will raise the rear approx 1" since the axle is centered which spilts the height gain by half. I am not sure if the 1" would make too much of an angle issue on your SZ or not. Just throwin' it out there to consider.
Im just bored mate! But I would think the less angle the better. If cutting high say 4", it would probably be a straight run for the belt but if cutting at say 2", it would be a greater angle. Your right, probably nothing to worry about but you know there are machine that have had the angle issue in the past.
I have seen older SZ with 26" tires (Bearclaw) and the deck wasnt touched. I can just imagine the scalping on that machine with the half inch pitch or more!:laugh:

Anyway, I'll probably never own one so...:drinkup:
 
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