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Supplier says dranage sleeves are no longer recommended

Discussion in 'Hardscaping' started by bigslick7878, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. bigslick7878

    bigslick7878 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 809

    Just called a huge supplier trying to get a price on a perforated drain pipe sleeve and he told me they don't sell them anymore. I asked why because I was just in the showroom not too long ago and they had them.

    He said (NationalAssociation.... of something) has taken them out of their recommendation because they studied it and they could create a "damming point".

    Is this true? Anyone heard of this?

    Honestly I always thought the sleeve was pretty unnecessary to begin with.
  2. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,527

    what is a drain pipe sleeve?

    are you taling about the 6 or so inch coupler used with black flex tubing? if so, we havent used them in decades, as yes, they are not water tight.

  3. STL Ponds and Waterfalls

    STL Ponds and Waterfalls LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,174

    Or you talking about the sock that goes over the pipe?
  4. TomG

    TomG LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 674

    I'm sure hes talking about the sock that goes over the pipe. Its just like how NCMA stopped telling people to use filter fabric in between your stone and your dirt back fill. It just ends up getting clogged with fines and becomes useless.
  5. bigslick7878

    bigslick7878 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 809

    NCMA was what he said, nice call. And yes I was talking about the fabric sleeve that goes over the pipe. Did not know about the stone/backfill either.Thanks for the info.

    What is funny is I did another job with that drain pipe, didn't have a sleeve and had a county inspector come out to look at the grinder pump and other stuff, and he says to me "all that is going to do is get clogged if you don't have the sleeve, it will collapse and be useless" on a french drain I was putting in.

    I thought about it for a minute and came to the conclusion he didn't know what he was talking about. Looks like NCMA backs that up.
  6. Stillwater

    Stillwater LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,851

    I will call BS on this and continiue to use filter fabric on my pipeing
  7. Danscapes

    Danscapes LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 328

  8. DVS Hardscaper

    DVS Hardscaper LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,527

    Ya know, this is funny. It's really really hard to argue with first hand experineces.

    We almost never wrap fabric around a drain pipe.

    We encase the drywell, or whatever it is, in fabric.

    I know for a fact that without ANY fabric, a drain pipe WILL clog with sediment / mud. No one from NCMA or any other organization will convince me any different.

    In 2009 we were contracted to build a paver patio and replace a masonry wall going into a basement of a house. Tore the wall apart, which was about 3-4 feet below grade. The bottom course of masonry block was full of water inside the cores. In other words, water *leached* through the block and collected in the block's cores. About 5 yrs prior, the home owner paid a water proofing company $10 grand to do drainage work. They installed 4" perforated pipe.......WITH NO FABRIC.

    Well, that pipe wall completely impacted with sediment, so water was collecting behind the masonry wall. And it wasn't just a baseball size blockage. I had my guys try to clean out the mud, but the blockage ran solid for more than 10-feet of pipe.

    We had to fix it.

    And we had to charge the client.

    Luckily, the client was home when we made the discovery and he could see right off the bat what we discovered. Otherwise if I had to call him at work, he would have thought for sure I was trying to scam him!

    It involved installing drain pipe, properly wrapped, and placed in 3/4" aggregate, with the pipe going into a 5x5x5 drywell. This cost the client an additional $1500.00.

    I always remember Paver Pete a few recent years ago tell about how he knows an old guy in the paver business, and is very successful. Really knows his stuff. Pete said the old guy operates off of wisdom that he acquired on his own, and Pete mentioned that this old man laughs at ICPI and will never have anything to do with ICPI.

    I often think me and that old man whom I have no clue is, are of similar mindset.

    I'm a thinker. And I think about things, and think about things. I do things and observe, and I observe, and I observe. And I learn.

    Sure fabric may clog over the years. But a pipe not wrapped in fabric, or somehow shielded by fabric......WILL clog Long long long long long before that fabric will.

    And I know this, not from any class or seminar, not from theory, but from 1st hand experince.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  9. Stillwater

    Stillwater LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,851

    I like your mindset, This needed repeating............
  10. PatriotLandscape

    PatriotLandscape LawnSite Bronze Member
    from MA
    Messages: 1,209

    While I won't disagree with the ncma. My feeling any pipe is better than no pipe
    Posted via Mobile Device

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