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Talstar Damaging Trees?

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Runner, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. Runner

    Runner LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,497

    I'm hoping you guys may be able to help me out. I have a friend that just called me, and has a question. He has been using a mix of bifenthrin and imidicloprid to do foliar sprays for Japanese Beetle as well as a few other pests. This mix is with .5 oz. per gallon. Now,...he has 4 Birch trees that are wilting in leaf and dropping. I told him that it may be just coincidental, and that this might just be brought on from the culmination of heat stress. I also said that it is possible that it could be some sort of fungus (as conditions have been perfect). He said he has not yet been able to see the leaves yet (this was just a call he got). He is gong to get some clippings and show them to me, so I can get some photos. He also said that out of many other birch trees he has treated, no other trees have done this. I know that this is probably brought on from the causes stated above, but he is pretty upset (worried) and wanted me to ask you guys if anyone has had any experience with this. Thanks ahead, guys...and hopefully you will be able to add some insight. :walking:

    LIBERTYLANDSCAPING LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 1,283

    I spray that same mix, & have never seen that cause the described symptoms:confused:

    I don't know about up there in Flint, but we could really use some rain, especially with these high temps we've had! I've been noticing some leaf wilt & some even falling off of some smaller maples.
  3. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    IPM methods are important
    It is important to know what the expected results of those chemicals combined are
    Has the LCO ever combined those 2 before and what were the results

    Jap beetles go away after a couple more weeks, it would be better to be proactive next year and try to ruin their life as a grub than as an active beetle during the year

    Pretty futile, but customers call and say GET R DUN I want dead beetles

    The smarter route is to explain the life cycle, and how you can help next year.
  4. Grandview

    Grandview LawnSite Gold Member
    from WI
    Messages: 3,251

    Sounds like some kind of herbicide contamination in the spray. Those are gut wrenching calls when you get them.

    LIBERTYLANDSCAPING LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 1,283

    Jap. beetles fly for MILES! You can't prevent plant damage on your property by treating the larvae state. :dizzy:

    PSUTURFGEEK LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 579

    Also check the temps when it was sprayed, on more than one occassion I have seen damage like this from the phytotoxicity of the insecticide on a hot day.
  7. Rayholio

    Rayholio LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,461

    I have had the same problem.. on blue spruces.. every time it was on a hot day.. but none of the labels warn of phytotoxicity.. so WTF?
  8. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,153

    Two things:

    You are correct that you want to explain the lifestyle to the customer, but that doesn't help anything. I love to tell people how the grub and the beetle are "the same" as this is very important but.....

    1) No matter what you do...you will never be able to control all Jap Beetles.
    2) If you don't control Jap Beetles in a timely manner, they can defoliate a tree in several hours to days depending on their numbers!
  9. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    rcreech, you are correct on both
  10. heritage

    heritage LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,351

    Hi Runner,

    Use .5 oz to 3 GAL of water, insted of 1 Gal. That is 18 oz per 100 Gallon rate. 43 oz per 100 Gal is the High Rate, and .43 oz per Gal would be the high rate into a gallon.......But there is a "Catch".

    Most of us Tree/Shrub guys are applying with Big Tanks and Higher Pressures, AND our "Finished Spray Volume" is 300-400 Gallons Per Surface Acre Covered.

    When applying with a "Backpack" and the much lower pressures, you will end up using more finished spray per surface acre, trying to get good coverage with larger droplets.

    So this could and does cause Phytotoxic issues often on hotter days.

    How do you get the correct dose for the Merit tank mix???

    I add one 1.6 oz packet of the Merit 75 WSP, to 1.5 gallons of water in a 2.5 gallon container with 1/2 gallon marks on the side, and Merit Lable "Clear Taped" to the container.

    I add 1/2 gallon solution (always shake well first) per 100 gal water OR 1 quart per 50 Gallons water, which puts me @ the 1.6 oz packet per 300 Gallon Foliar Rate.

    Since you use 1 gallon Finished mixes, you could add one 1.6 oz WSP to 300 oz water, and use 1 oz of that "Stock Solution" (shake well first) to a Gallon of water.

    1 Level Teaspoon of the Talstar F would be .16 oz into a gallon of water, which is close enough to the .18 oz per gallon IMO.

    This will be "Safe" on those hotter days with the "Backpack" sprayer, and you will still get QUICK KNOCKDOWN results with this mix on the Jap Beetles.



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